Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 1.30 p.m.gyda’r Llywydd (Rosemary Butler) yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 1.30 p.m.with the Presiding Officer (Rosemary Butler) in the Chair.

Y Llywydd: Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn.

The Presiding Officer: I call the National Assembly for Wales to order.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister

Yr Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: Er fy mod yn cytuno yn llwyr â’r polisi, mae llawer o siopwyr bach, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd twristaidd, yn poeni efallai na fydd ymwelwyr o’r tu allan i Gymru yn ddigon ymwybodol o beth yw deddf Cymru. Yr wyf wedi cynghori’r siopwyr y dylent ddweud wrth y prynwyr eu bod mewn gwlad arall. Efallai y byddai o gymorth pe byddem yn hysbysebu yn Lloegr y newid i ddeddf Cymru.

Lord Elis-Thomas: While agreeing entirely with the policy, many small shopkeepers, particularly in tourist areas, are concerned that visitors from outside Wales will not be properly aware of Welsh law. I have advised these shopkeepers that they should inform their customers that they are in another country. Perhaps it would help if we were to advertise in England the change in the law in Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym wedi bod yn y sefyllfa hon o’r blaen gyda’r gwaharddiad ar ysmygu mewn mannau cyhoeddus. Yr oedd Cymru, wrth gwrs, dri mis ar y blaen i Loegr yn dod â’r polisi hwnnw i rym. Trueni ein bod ni wedi methu â gwneud hynny flynyddoedd cyn 2007.

The First Minister: We have been in this position before with the ban on smoking in public places. Wales, of course, was three months ahead of England in implementing that policy. It is a shame that we were unable to do it years before 2007.

Vaughan Gething: What progress has been made in ensuring that all secondary school pupils have access to a credit union as part of learning to save and borrow wisely in the future?

Vaughan Gething: Pa gynnydd a wnaed o ran sicrhau fod pob disgybl ysgol uwchradd yn cael mynediad at undeb credyd fel rhan o ddysgu cynilo a benthyg yn ddoeth yn y dyfodol?

The First Minister: We have encouraged young savers in the credit unions, and we continue to support the CU@theCU website that provides schools with advice about how to set up junior savers clubs. Also, all secondary schools have access to credit unions in Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym wedi annog cynilwyr ifanc yn yr undebau credyd, ac rydym yn dal ati i gefnogi gwefan CU@theCU sy’n rhoi cyngor i ysgolion ar sut i sefydlu clybiau cynilwyr iau. Mae gan bob ysgol uwchradd yng Nghymru fynediad at undebau credyd hefyd.

Lindsay Whittle: I congratulate Dai Thomas and the Labour-controlled Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council on the mobile credit union. What initiatives and steps can you take to ensure that that facility will be taken up by other areas in Wales? You mentioned loan sharks; can we have meetings with the judiciary to ensure that loan sharks, when caught, are given severe financial punishments?

Lindsay Whittle: Rwy’n llongyfarch Dai Thomas a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell Nedd dan reolaeth Llafur ar yr undeb credyd symudol. Pa fentrau a chamau allwch chi eu cymryd i sicrhau y bydd ardaloedd eraill yng Nghymru yn defnyddio’r cyfleuster hwnnw? Sonioch am fenthycwyr arian didrwydded; allwn ni gael cyfarfodydd gyda’r farnwriaeth i sicrhau bod benthycwyr arian didrwydded, pan gânt eu dal, yn cael cosbau ariannol sylweddol?

The First Minister: Sentencing is a matter for the judiciary. It is important that a strong message is sent out to the public that illegal money lending is unacceptable, and sentences should be hard enough to reflect that. When it comes to mobile credit unions, there are examples of such mobility across Wales, as credit unions use different premises in order to attract new savers. It is a good example, and one I am sure will be copied across the whole of Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mater i’r farnwriaeth yw dedfrydu. Mae’n bwysig bod neges gref yn cael ei chyfleu i’r cyhoedd fod benthyg arian yn ddidrwydded yn annerbyniol, a dylai dedfrydau fod yn ddigon caled i adlewyrchu hynny. Pan ddaw i undebau credyd symudol, mae enghreifftiau o symudedd o’r fath ledled Cymru, wrth i undebau credyd ddefnyddio safleoedd gwahanol i ddenu cynilwyr newydd. Mae’n enghraifft dda, ac rwy’n siŵr y caiff ei hailadrodd ar draws Cymru gyfan.

William Powell: In addition to the benefits that you have already outlined, I would also flag up what is happening in parts of mid and west Wales, where the library service is also very involved in promoting and hosting credit unions. Indeed, I am a member of one myself. Have you considered the potential for business credit unions to support rural development in Wales, along the lines of what has happened in the United States of America?

William Powell: Yn ogystal â’r manteision rydych chi wedi eu hamlinellu’n barod, byddwn hefyd yn tynnu sylw at beth sy’n digwydd mewn rhannau o’r canolbarth a’r gorllewin, lle mae’r gwasanaeth llyfrgelloedd hefyd yn chwarae rhan fawr yn hybu a chynnal undebau credyd. Yn wir, rwy’n aelod o un fy hun. A ydych chi wedi ystyried potensial undebau credyd i gefnogi datblygu gwledig yng Nghymru, fel y digwyddodd yn Unol Daleithiau America?

The First Minister: The natural process of growth for credit unions will take them towards becoming credit unions that lend to small businesses as well. I see no reason why credit unions cannot in the future provide a service to all sections of the community, business being one of them.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bydd y ffordd naturiol mae undebau credyd yn tyfu yn eu harwain at fod yn undebau credyd sy’n benthyg i fusnesau bach hefyd. Ni welaf reswm pam na all undebau credyd ddarparu gwasanaeth i bob rhan o’r gymuned yn y dyfodol, ac mae busnes yn un ohonynt.

Mick Antoniw: It appears that the introduction of a legislative reform Order to remove some of the restrictions on credit unions—long awaited by credit unions in my constituency—is being dragged out by the UK Government. Is there anything that we can do to encourage the speeding up of that process or, alternatively, through our own efforts, to give assistance to credit unions in being able to plan their future better?

Mick Antoniw: Mae’n ymddangos bod Llywodraeth y DU yn llusgo i gyflwyno Gorchymyn diwygio deddfwriaethol i gael gwared ar rai o’r cyfyngiadau ar undebau credyd, sy’n hir-ddisgwyliedig gan undebau credyd yn fy etholaeth i. A oes rhywbeth y gallwn ei wneud i annog y broses honno i gael ei chyflymu neu, fel arall, drwy ein hymdrechion ein hunain, i roi cymorth i undebau credyd allu cynllunio eu dyfodol yn well?

The First Minister: Credit unions operate under far fewer restrictions in other countries, particularly in those countries where they have a longer history—such as the Republic of Ireland, and Canada, where credit unions began. Progress on the legislative reform Order has been slow; it was, however, laid, in July and I trust that provisions will come into effect in January 2012.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae undebau credyd yn gweithredu gyda llawer llai o gyfyngiadau mewn gwledydd eraill, yn enwedig mewn gwledydd lle mae ganddynt hanes maith—fel Gweriniaeth Iwerddon, a Chanada, lle cychwynnodd undebau credyd. Bu cynnydd ar y Gorchymyn diwygio deddfwriaethol yn araf; fodd bynnag, cafodd ei osod ym mis Gorffennaf a hyderaf y bydd yn dod i rym ym mis Ionawr 2012.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew R.T. Davies): First Minister, this week, at the Labour Party conference, many senior Labour politicians have come forward—Liam Byrne, Tessa Jowell, Alan Johnson and Ed Balls: twice in fact—to accept their responsibility and to apologise to the people of Britain for Labour’s term in office. Will you, as First Minister, now join in this collective act of contrition and apologise to the people of Wales for the damning failures of Welsh Labour over the first 12 years of devolution?

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Andrew R.T. Davies): Brif Weinidog, yr wythnos hon, yng nghynhadledd y Blaid Lafur, daeth nifer o uwch wleidyddion Llafur yn eu blaen—Liam Byrne, Tessa Jowell, Alan Johnson ac Ed Balls; ddwywaith, digwydd bod—i dderbyn eu cyfrifoldeb ac ymddiheuro i bobl Prydain am gyfnod Llafur mewn grym. A wnewch chi, fel Prif Weinidog, yn awr ymuno yn y weithred hon o gyd-edifarhau ac ymddiheuro i bobl Cymru am fethiannau damniol Llafur Cymru dros y 12 mlynedd cyntaf o ddatganoli?

The First Minister: I look forward to hearing the apology for Thatcherism from the party opposite. The leader of the opposition need not stand to attention while I speak; he is perfectly able to sit down if he wishes—he need not be afraid in that way. When we have an apology for Thatcherism and the way that it was wrought upon Wales, then perhaps the people of Wales will see that his party has more credibility.

Y Prif Weinidog: Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed ymddiheuriad am Thatcheriaeth gan y blaid gyferbyn. Nid oes angen i arweinydd yr wrthblaid sefyll pan rwyf yn siarad; mae’n ddigon tebol i eistedd os yw’n dymuno—nid oes raid iddo fod ofn yn hynny o beth. Pan gawn ni ymddiheuriad am Thatcheriaeth a’r ffordd y cafodd ei wthio ar Gymru, yna efallai y bydd pobl Cymru yn gweld bod mwy o hygrededd gan ei blaid.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Before you ask the next question, I would appreciate it if you sit down between questions.

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Cyn i chi ofyn y cwestiwn nesaf, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe baech yn eistedd lawr rhwng cwestiynau.

Andrew R.T. Davies: It is pretty clear that the First Minister is not prepared to join with his colleagues in Westminster, a place to which he constantly refers. Let us look at the evidence, First Minister. Let us look at declining educational standards, which has happened under your jurisdiction when you were in the Cabinet and as First Minister. Pupil literacy and numeracy has depreciated by a third in Welsh schools; GCSE and A-level attainment levels are lower than those in the rest of the United Kingdom; the number of modern foreign languages taken as GCSE are falling to the lowest level in the United Kingdom, and your own Minister for education has identified systemic failure in the Welsh education system. Will you not apologise to the students and children of Wales for Welsh Labour’s collective responsibility for the education fraternity here in Wales?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Mae’n eithaf amlwg nad yw’r Prif Weinidog yn barod i ymuno â’i gydweithwyr yn San Steffan, rhywle mae’n cyfeirio ato’n gyson. Gadewch i ni edrych ar y dystiolaeth, Brif Weinidog. Gadewch i ni edrych ar y safonau addysg sy’n dirywio, sydd wedi digwydd dan eich gofal chi pan roeddech yn y Cabinet ac fel Prif Weinidog. Mae llythrennedd a rhifedd wedi mynd lawr draean mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru; mae lefelau cyflawni TGAU a lefela yn is na’r rhai yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Unedig; mae nifer yr ieithoedd modern tramor sy’n cael eu cymryd fel TGAU yn disgyn i’r lefel isaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac mae eich Gweinidog addysg chi wedi nodi methiant systemig yn y systemig addysg Gymreig. Oni wnewch chi ymddiheuro i fyfyrwyr a phlant Cymru am gydgyfrifoldeb Llafur Cymru dros y gymuned addysg yma yng Nghymru? 

The First Minister: He asks me to apologise to students in Wales. His is a party that wants to triple the amount of money that students pay in university tuition fees. Why do you not apologise for that? If you look at the figures to which he referred in education, the difference between my party and his is this: we identify failure, deal with it and ensure that we invest in education, rather than reduce education spending by more than 20 per cent, which is what his party wants to do. He wants to ensure that students in Wales have less money spent on schools, less money spent on books and less money spent on information technology, and he then has the nerve to charge them three times as much to go to university.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n gofyn i mi ymddiheuro i fyfyrwyr yng Nghymru. Ei blaid ef sydd eisiau treblu faint o arian mae myfyrwyr yn ei dalu mewn ffioedd dysgu prifysgol. Pam na wnewch chi ymddiheuro am hynny? Os edrychwch ar y ffigurau addysg y cyfeiriodd atynt, dyma’r gwahaniaeth rhwng fy mhlaid i a’i blaid ef: rydym yn nodi methiant, ymdrin ag ef a sicrhau ein bod yn buddsoddi mewn addysg, yn hytrach na cheisio lleihau gwariant ar addysg o fwy na 20 y cant, sef beth mae ei blaid ef eisiau gwneud. Mae eisiau sicrhau fod myfyrwyr yng Nghymru yn cael llai o arian wedi ei wario ar ysgolion, llai o arian wedi ei wario ar lyfrau a llai o arian wedi ei wari ar dechnoleg gwybodaeth, ac wedyn mae ganddo’r wyneb i godi deirgwaith gymaint arnynt i fynd i’r brifysgol. 

Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, you are completely detached from the reality of what is going on, and you seem to be hanging on to the line about 20 per cent cuts. In the election, we put forward our budget and our proposals, and not once could you knock the figures down. The fact of the matter, as well you know, is that education authorities in Wales are retaining more money for administration rather than putting it in to education.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Brif Weinidog, nid oes gennych unrhyw syniad beth sy’n digwydd mewn gwirionedd, ac mae fel pe baech yn benderfynol o ailadrodd y llinell am doriadau o 20 y cant. Yn yr etholiad, gwnaethom gyflwyno ein cyllideb a’n cynigion, ac ni lwyddoch unwaith i’w tanseilio. Y gwir amdani, fel y gwyddoch yn dda, yw bod awdurdodau addysg yng Nghymru yn cadw mwy o arian ar gyfer gweinyddu yn hytrach na’i roi mewn i addysg.

However, if you want to move on to other areas, First Minister, let us look at the economy and the level of decline seen in the Welsh economy under Welsh Labour in the first 12 years of devolution. Russell Lawson, formerly of the Federation of Small Businesses, said that £100 million of public money was wasted in the technium project. Your Government has recognised that by winding down that project. The Welsh Government has delivered next to nothing, according to Roger Jones, by replacing the Welsh Development Agency—the biggest act of economic vandalism ever seen in promoting Wales abroad. When you consider what David Stevens of the Admiral Group plc said in giving evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee—something that your Minister refused to do—

Fodd bynnag, os ydych chi eisiau symud ymlaen i feysydd eraill, Brif Weinidog, gadewch i ni edrych ar yr economi a’r math o ddirywiad a welwyd yn economi Cymru o dan Lafur Cymru yn y 12 mlynedd gyntaf o ddatganoli. Dywedodd Russell Lawson, gynt o Ffederasiwn y Busnesau Bach, fod £100 miliwn o arian cyhoeddus wedi ei wastraffu ar y project techniwm. Mae eich Llywodraeth chi wedi cydnabod hynny drwy ddod â’r project hwnnw i ben. Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyflawni fawr ddim, yn ôl Roger Jones, drwy gael gwared ar Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru—y weithred fwyaf o fandaliaeth economaidd erioed o ran hybu Cymru dramor. Pan ystyriwch beth ddywedodd David Stevens o Grŵp Admiral plc wrth roi tystiolaeth i’r Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig—rhywbeth y gwrthododd eich Gweinidog ei wneud—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Is there a question coming?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Oes yna gwestiwn ar ei ffordd?

Andrew R.T. Davies: He said that Wales was punching below its weight. Your former good friend Andrew Davies highlighted that the Government was risk averse and slow to react in developing the Welsh economy. Surely, all those comments by people from your own side and from independent experts call for an apology to the people of Wales for making Wales the poorest part of the United Kingdom.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Dywedodd fod Cymru yn tanberfformio. Dywedodd eich cyn-gyfaill da Andrew Davies fod y Llywodraeth yn amharod i gymryd risg ac yn araf i ymateb i ddatblygu economi Cymru. Mae’n rhaid bod yr holl sylwadau hynny gan bobl ar eich ochr chi a chan arbenigwyr annibynnol yn galw am ymddiheuriad i bobl Cymru am wneud Cymru y rhan dlotaf o’r Deyrnas Unedig. 

The First Minister: He really needs to ensure that the facts in his script are right. First of all, he accepts no responsibility on the part of his party for what is happening at UK level—‘Nothing to do with us’. Apparently, the policy of the UK Government has no effect on Wales, even though we see its negative effect on the rest of the UK. He makes no apology for that at all. If you look at the suggestions that he makes for improving the Welsh economy, it is the clanging of an empty vessel. He talks about what the Government has done. Let us look at ProAct. Some 12,000 jobs have been preserved in Wales as a result of the ProAct scheme, of which his party was not in favour—the Conservatives were lukewarm. Why? In their view, preserving jobs is not important, improving the economy is not important, skills are not important, training is not important. Just as we saw in the 1980s, they do not care and they do not want to help people when they need it.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae gwir angen iddo gael y ffeithiau yn ei sgript yn gywir. Yn gyntaf, nid yw’n derbyn unrhyw gyfrifoldeb am y rhan y chwaraeodd ei blaid am beth sy’n digwydd ar lefel y DU—‘Dim byd i’w wneud â ni’. Yn ôl bob golwg, nid yw polisi Llywodraeth y DU yn cael unrhyw effaith ar Gymru, er ein bod yn gweld ei effaith negyddol ar weddill y DU. Nid yw’n ymddiheuro am hynny o gwbl. O ran yr awgrymiadau mae’n eu gwneud ar gyfer gwella economi Cymru, mwyaf trwst, llestri gweigion. Mae’n sôn am beth wnaeth y Llywodraeth. Gadewch i ni edrych ar ProAct. Mae tua 12,000 o swyddi wedi eu cadw yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i raglen ProAct, nad oedd ei blaid yn ei ffafrio—roedd y Ceidwadwyr yn llugoer. Yn eu barn nhw, nid yw cadw swyddi yn bwysig, nid yw gwella’r economi yn bwysig, nid yw sgiliau yn bwysig, nid yw hyfforddiant yn bwysig. Yn union fel y gwelsom yn y 1980au, nid oes ots ganddyn nhw ac nid ydynt eisiau helpu pobl pan maent ei angen. 

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Brif Weinidog, yr wythnos diwethaf caswom gyfle i drafod y sefyllfa sydd wedi dirywio o safbwynt yr economi. Erbyn yr wythnos hon, efallai y byddwch wedi cael mwy o amser i ystyried goblygiadau hynny, ac efallai y gallwn symud pethau yn eu blaenau. Yn gyntaf, a ydych yn derbyn bod y rhagolygon ar gyfer yr economi yn sylweddol waeth erbyn hyn na phan oeddem yn ymladd yr etholiad ym mis Mai?

The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): First Minister, last week, we discussed the declining state of the economy. By this week, you may have had more time to consider the implications of that, and we might be able to move things on. First, do you accept that economic forecasts are now significantly worse than when we fought the election back in May?

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid yw’r arwyddion yn dda, mae hynny’n wir. I fynd yn ôl i’r wythnos diwethaf, yr oedd sôn am gadw ReAct. Mae ReAct yn dal i fodoli. Hefyd, mae Addasu a Sgiliau Twf Cymru gennym. Nid yw pobl ym myd busnes yn gofyn am weld ProAct yn dychwelyd. Yr oedd ProAct yn dda iawn yn ôl yn 2007 pan sefydlwyd y cynllun, ond yr hyn y mae byd busnes am ei weld yw buddsoddiad mewn rhwydweithiau mewn meysydd fel trafnidiaeth, a buddsoddiad mewn sgiliau ac addysg. Dyna’n union beth yr ydym yn ei wneud fel Llywodraeth. Nid oes angen mynd yn ôl i bolisïau dair blynedd yn ôl er mwyn edrych ymlaen. Mae’n rhaid sicrhau bod gennym bolisïau sy’n berthnasol i heddiw.

The First Minister: The signs are not good, that is true. To go back to last week, mention was made of retaining ReAct. ReAct is still in existence. We also have Adapt and Skills Growth Wales. Businesspeople are not asking for the return of ProAct. ProAct was very good back in 2007 when the scheme was established, but what the business world wants to see is investment in networks in areas such as transport, and investment in skills and education. That is exactly what the Government is doing. We do not have to go back to the policies of three years ago in order to look forward. We must ensure that we have policies that are relevant to today.

1.45 p.m.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Y broblem fawr, Brif Weinidog, gan dderbyn popeth yr ydych wedi’i ddweud am Sgiliau Twf Cymru, ReAct, dim ProAct, a buddsoddiad yn yr economi, yw eu bod i gyd yn bethau yr oeddech eisoes yn cynllunio ar eu cyfer—y maent yn eich rhaglen, y byddwn yn ei thrafod yn nes ymlaen. Yr hyn y mae’r Gronfa Ariannol Ryngwladol yn ei ddweud yn ei hadroddiad, a gyhoeddwyd ers inni siarad yr wythnos diwethaf, yw:

Ieuan Wyn Jones: The big problem, First Minister, accepting everything that you say about Skills Growth Wales, ReAct, no ProAct, and investment in the economy, is that they are all things that you were already planning for—they are in your programme, which we will be discussing later on. What the International Monetary Fund says in its report, published since we spoke last week, is that

‘the global economy is in a dangerous new phase’

mae’r economi fyd-eang mewn cyfnod newydd, beryglus

gyda’r pwylsais ar y ‘new’. Mae hynny’n golygu, felly, fod yn rhaid inni ofyn a oes gennych gynllun amgen. A oes gennych chi gynllun b? Mae eich bòs, Ed Miliband, wedi dweud bod angen i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol gael cynllun b. Nid yw’r hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth honno yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd, o safbwynt yr economi, yn ddigon da. Y cwestiwn sydd gennyf i chi yw hyn: ynghyd â’r holl bethau yr ydych wedi’u rhestru—sef pethau sydd eisoes yn y rhaglen—beth yn ychwanegol y mae’ch Llywodraeth yn mynd i’w wneud? Mae sefyllfa economi Cymru yn mynd i waethygu o hyn hyd yn oed i ddiwedd y flwyddyn nesaf.

with the emphasis on the ‘new’. That means, of course, that we must ask whether you have an alternative plan. Do you have a plan b? Your boss, Ed Miliband, has said that the United Kingdom Government needs a plan b. What that Government is currently doing on the economy is not good enough. My question to you is this: in addition to all the things that you have listed—which are already in your programme—what else will your Government do? Wales’s economic situation will get worse even between now and the end of next year.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fy mòs i yw pobl Cymru, wrth gwrs. Nid oes neb arall yn y darlun yn hynny o beth.

The First Minister: My boss, of course, is the people of Wales. There is no-one else in the picture in that respect.

Byddwn yn cyhoeddi pecyn o fesurau er mwyn helpu’r economi yng Nghymru. Rhaid derbyn, wrth gwrs, fod hon yn broblem fyd-eang. Nid yw hynny’n golygu y dylem eistedd yn ôl a dweud na allwn wneud unrhyw beth. Bydd y pecyn yn cynnwys cymorth i helpu busnesau bach, cymorth gyda pharthau menter, sydd eisoes wedi’i gyhoeddi, cymorth gyda sgiliau, cymorth gydag addysg a chymorth i sicrhau rhwydwaith yng Nghymru ar gyfer band eang, ffonau symudol a thrafnidiaeth, er mwyn sicrhau ein bod wedi cysylltu â marchnadoedd y byd. Dyna beth yw bwriad y Llywodraeth hon: buddsoddi yn y dyfodol er mwyn sicrhau bod Cymru mewn sefyllfa gryfach, o gofio’r sefyllfa fyd-eang sydd ohoni o ran yr economi.

We will announce a package of measures to help the economy in Wales. We must accept, of course, that this is a global problem. That is not to say that we should sit back and say that there is nothing that we can do. The package will include assistance for small businesses, assistance with enterprise zones, which has already been announced, assistance with skills, assistance with education and assistance to secure a network in Wales for broadband, mobile phones and transport, in order to ensure that we are linked up with world markets. That is what this Government intends to do: we will invest in the future in order to ensure that Wales is in a stronger position, bearing in mind the global economic situation.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: I am pleased to note that you say that the people of Wales are your boss; of course, Ed Miliband is still your boss, although, apparently, he will not be the boss of the Labour leader in Scotland, which will be quite interesting. Let us see whether Welsh Labour will put some distance between itself and Labour in London. Never mind, that is probably for another day.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Rwy’n falch o’ch clywed yn dweud mai pobl Cymru yw eich bos; wrth gwrs, Ed Miliband yw eich bos, er bod sôn nad ef fydd bos yr arweinydd Llafur yn yr Alban, a fydd yn reit ddiddorol. Gadewch i ni weld a fydd Llafur Cymru yn pellhau ei hun rywfaint oddi wrth Lafur yn Llundain. Ta waeth, mater ar gyfer rhywdro arall yw hwnnw. 

First Minister, the IMF and everyone else now accept that the world economy is in a dangerous position. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is saying that unemployment will rise, and the Office for Budget Responsibility will downgrade growth figures. That is the background against which we are now assessing the future of the Welsh economy. Your boss is saying that the UK Government should have a plan b. You are telling me that all you have is your plan a, which is what is published in your document. I am suggesting to you that the people of Wales are now demanding that your Government responds to the worsening economic position.

Brif Weinidog, mae’r IMF a phawb arall yn derbyn fod yr economi fyd-eang mewn sefyllfa beryglus. Mae’r Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd yn dweud y bydd diweithdra yn cynyddu, ac y bydd Y Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol yn israddio ffigurau twf. Dyna’r cyd-destun yr ydym bellach yn asesu dyfodol economi Cymru yn ei erbyn. Mae eich bos yn dweud y dylai Llywodraeth y DU feddu ar gynllun wrth gefn. Rydych yn dweud wrthyf mai dim ond un cynllun sydd gennych, sef yr hyn a gyhoeddir yn eich dogfen. Rwy’n awgrymu wrthoch chi fod pobl Cymru bellach yn mynnu bod eich Llywodraeth yn ymateb i’r sefyllfa economaidd, sy’n prysur waethygu. 

Let me tell you some of the things that you could do. You could, for example, put more money into the business budget—I said that last week. That would mean that we could give a little more protection to our manufacturing sector. You say that ProAct is not called for by the business community, but how do you know? I would ask you to set up an economic summit so that we can discuss this with the business community. You have cut the budget for ReAct; that budget is now much smaller than it was in the teeth of the recession. You could put more money into ReAct, if you wished. You could convert more revenue into capital; I think that you are planning to do that, but let us see whether you will do it. You could get the construction sector moving. These are practical ways in which you can shift the emphasis away from what you are currently doing into something that would really protect jobs in Wales. Are you prepared to do that?

Gadewch i mi ddweud wrthych chi am rai o’r pethau y gallech eu gwneud. Fe allech, er enghraifft, roi mwy o arian yn y gyllideb fusnes—dywedais hynny yr wythnos diwethaf. Byddai hynny’n golygu ein bod yn gallu diogelu rhywfaint mwy ar ein sector gweithgynhyrchu. Dywedwch nad yw’r gymuned fusnes wedi galw am ProAct, ond sut gwyddoch chi? Rwy’n gofyn i chi sefydlu uwchgynhadledd economaidd fel y gallwn drafod hyn gyda’r gymuned fusnes. Rydych wedi torri’r gyllideb ar gyfer ReAct; mae’r gyllideb honno’n llawer llai nag yr oedd pan roedd y dirwasgiad ar ei waethaf. Gallech roi mwy o arian yn ReAct pe dymunech chi. Gallech drosi mwy o refeniw yn gyfalaf; rwy’n meddwl eich bod yn bwriadu gwneud hynny, ond gadewch i ni weld os gwnewch. Gallech ddechrau symud y sector adeiladu. Mae’r rhain yn ffyrdd ymarferol i symud y pwyslais oddi wrth beth rydych yn ei wneud ar y funud i rywbeth a fyddai wir yn diogelu swyddi yng Nghymru. A ydych yn barod i wneud hynny?

The First Minister: There are many things that we are prepared to do. I am surprised that Plaid Cymru’s answer to economic difficulties is to have more meetings. I talk to businesses and I listen to businesses. We have a council for economic renewal and I listen to what they say to me. No-one is saying, ‘Bring back ProAct’. I looked at Plaid Cymru’s manifesto—in fairness, I looked at it again this morning—to see what proposals it had for the economy. There were only three things on the economy in the manifesto. That was Plaid Cymru’s offer on the economy. That is not good enough. It included the Build4Wales company and a job offer to small businesses, but no-one knew how they would be financed. It needs to be better than that.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym yn barod i wneud nifer o bethau. Rwy’n synnu mai ateb Plaid Cymru i anawsterau economaidd yw cael mwy o gyfarfodydd. Rwy’n siarad â busnesau ac yn gwrando ar fusnesau. Mae gennym gyngor ar gyfer adfywio’r economi ac rwy’n gwrando ar beth maent yn ddweud wrthyf i. Nid oes neb yn dweud ‘Dewch â ProAct yn ôl’. Edrychais ar faniffesto Plaid Cymru—er tegwch, edrychais arno eto y bore yma—i weld pa gynigion oedd ganddi ar gyfer yr economi. Dim ond tri peth oedd yn y maniffesto ar yr economi. Dyna oedd cynnig Plaid Cymru ar yr economi. Nid yw hynny’n ddigon da. Roedd yn cynnwys y cwmni Build4Wales a chynnig swydd i fusnesau bach, ond wyddai neb sut y buasent yn cael eu hariannu. Mae’n rhaid iddo fod yn well na hynny.

Yes, of course we are looking at the split between revenue and capital. Much of the criticism that you have levelled is criticism levelled at yourself and your party. You accepted the budget settlement last year. Let us see what we can agree on. It is right to say that we need to ensure that we have a proper package of support for business and for the economy, but what we absolutely should not do is try to put in place the remedies that were effective three years ago. From listening to businesses, I know that what they want is not more meetings or a return to what happened three years ago, but the required investment made now to ensure that our economy is strong in the teeth of a world recession.

Ydym, wrth gwrs rydym yn edrych ar y rhaniad rhwng refeniw a chyfalaf. Mae llawer o’r feirniadaeth a wnaethoch yn feirniadaeth ohonoch chi a’ch plaid. Gwnaethoch dderbyn y setliad cyllideb y llynedd. Gadewch inni weld beth y gallwn gytuno arno. Mae’n gywir dweud bod angen i ni sicrhau bod gennym becyn cymorth priodol i fusnes ac i’r economi, ond yr hyn na ddylem wneud yn bendant yw ceisio rhoi atebion ar waith a oedd yn effeithiol dair blynedd yn ôl. O wrando ar fusnesau, gwn mai beth maen nhw eisiau yw nid mwy o gyfarfodydd na mynd yn ôl at beth ddigwyddodd dair blynedd yn ôl, ond y buddsoddiad sydd angen ei wneud yn awr i sicrhau bod ein economi yn gryf pan fo’r dirwasgiad byd-eang ar ei waethaf. 

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats (Kirsty Williams): First Minister, what is the Government’s target for the number of children in care gaining five A* to C grades at GCSE?

Arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Kirsty Williams): Brif Weinidog, beth yw targed y Llywodraeth ar gyfer nifer y plant mewn gofal sy’n cael pum gradd A* i C mewn TGAU?

The First Minister: We know that the situation with regard to children in care is poor, which is why we made the commitment in our manifesto to improve their life chances. As I have said many times, there is an enormous difference—a twelve fold difference—between the achievements in school of children in care and those of children from the general population. That is why we are putting in place measures to deal with this situation and get away from the statistic that children in care are more likely to go to jail than university.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwyddom fod y sefyllfa’n wael o ran plant mewn gofal, a dyna pam y gwnaethom yr ymrwymiad yn ein maniffesto i wella eu cyfle mewn bywyd. Fel y dywedais sawl tro, mae gwahaniaeth anferth—gwahaniaeth ddeuddeg gwaith yn fwy—rhwng cyflawniad plant mewn gofal yn yr ysgol a chyflawniad plant o’r boblogaeth gyffredinol. Dyna pam ein bod yn rhoi mesurau yn eu lle i ddelio gyda’r sefyllfa hon a symud oddi wrth yr ystadegyn bod plant mewn gofal yn fwy tebygol o fynd i garchar na phrifysgol.

Kirsty Williams: Given your analysis of the problem and your commitment to tackling it, and your comments yesterday that your party is truly privileged to equip our young people with the skills that they need for the future, I ask you again: what is the Government’s target for the number of children in care gaining five A* to C grades at GCSE? What is the target?

Kirsty Williams: O ystyried eich dadansoddiad o’r broblem a’ch ymrwymiad i’w thaclo, a’ch sylwadau ddoe bod eich plaid wir yn freintiedig i roi’r sgiliau maent eu hangen ar gyfer y dyfodol i’n pobl ifanc, gofynnaf eto: beth yw targed y Llywodraeth ar gyfer y nifer o blant mewn gofal yn cael graddau A* i C mewn TGAU? Beth yw’r targed?

The First Minister: We want to see an improvement. We want to see a significant narrowing of the gap between attainment by children in the general population and attainment by children in care. The Deputy Minister has already put in place a scheme to deal with this and is looking to strengthen it to ensure that children in care get the support that they need, not only in education, but when, as quite often happens, they move from home to home and are unsettled as a result.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym eisiau gweld gwelliant. Rydym eisiau gweld y bwlch y cau yn sylweddol rhwng cyrhaeddiad plant yn y boblogaeth gyffredinol a chyrhaeddiad plant mewn gofal. Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog eisoes wedi rhoi cynllun ar waith i ddelio â hyn ac mae’n bwriadu ei gryfhau er mwyn sicrhau fod plant mewn gofal yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt, nid yn unig mewn addysg, ond, fel sy'n digwydd yn eithaf aml, pan maent yn symud o gartref i gartref ac yn teimlo’n ansefydlog o’r herwydd.  

Kirsty Williams: Of course you want to see an improvement; it would be a pretty weird Government that would want to see the figures get worse. The current Government target is for just one GSCE at A* to C grade for children who are currently in care. The Government does not even measure the number of children in care achieving ‘good’ GCSEs—you do not even bother to measure that. I will ask you again: what extra support in practice—not warm words—can you give those children to fulfil the promises that you made yesterday about equipping all of our young people for a better future?

Kirsty Williams: Wrth gwrs eich bod eisiau gweld gwelliant; Llywodraeth ryfedd iawn fyddai am weld y ffigurau yn gwaethygu. Targed y Llywodraeth ar hyn o bryd yw dim ond un TGAU gradd A* i C ar gyfer plant sydd mewn gofal ar hyn o bryd. Nid yw’r Llywodraeth hyd yn oed yn mesur faint o blant mewn gofal sy’n cael TGAU ‘da’—nid ydych hyd yn oed yn trafferthu i fesur hynny. Gofynnaf ichi eto: pa gymorth ychwanegol yn ymarferol—nid geiriau cynnes—allwch chi ei roi i’r plant hynny i wireddu’r addewidion a wnaethoch ddoe am arfogi ein pobl ifanc ar gyfer dyfodol gwell? 

The First Minister: We committed over £1 million, I understand, to a scheme that was in place under the previous Government in order to deal with this, and we are looking to see what we can do to improve the situation. We will improve the situation in future. You asked what the target is; I can tell you that some two years ago some 54 per cent of children in the general population achieved five A* grades at GCSE. The equivalent figure for children in care was around 4 per cent. That is clearly not acceptable. The same gap appeared when it came to children gaining five GCSEs of any grade. That is why we are fully committed to improving the situation, and we were the only party to include a commitment in the election manifesto to do so.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwnaethom ymrwymo dros £1 miliwn, rwy’n deall, i gynllun oedd ar waith o dan y Lywodraeth flaenorol er mwyn delio â hyn, ac rydym yn edrych i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i wella’r sefyllfa. Fe fyddwn yn gwella’r sefyllfa yn y dyfodol. Gwnaethoch ofyn beth oedd y targed; gallaf ddweud wrthoch chi: ddwy flynedd yn ôl, cafodd 54 y cant o blant yn y boblogaeth gyffredinol bump gradd A* mewn TGAU. Y ffigur cyfatebol ar gyfer plant mewn gofal oedd tua 4 y cant. Yn amlwg, nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol. Ymddangosodd yr un bwlch o ran plant yn cael pum TGAU o unrhyw radd. Dyna pam ein bod yn hollol ymrwymedig i wella’r sefyllfa, ac ni oedd yr unig blaid i gynnwys ymrwymiad i wneud hynny yn y maniffesto etholiad.

Leanne Wood: Given the economic situation that has been outlined by previous questioners, I would argue that jobs should be the top priority for the Government. I recently wrote to the Minister for Education and Skills, who replied that the Welsh Government recognises the importance of supported employment. There are two Remploy factories in my region, South Wales Central, both of which are under threat. First Minister, will you agree to make the case for the devolution of the budget for Remploy factories in Wales? Further to that, will you make a commitment that, in the event that you are successful with that argument, you will ensure that those Remploy factories remain open?

Leanne Wood: O ystyried y sefyllfa economaidd a amlinellwyd gan y siaradwyr blaenorol, fy nadl i yw mai swyddi ddylai fod yn brif flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth. Ysgrifennais yn ddiweddar at y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau, a atebodd bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydnabod pa mor bwysig yw cyflogaeth gyda chefnogaeth. Mae dwy ffatri Remploy yn fy rhanbarth, Canol De Cymru, ac mae’r ddwy o dan fygythiad. Brif Weinidog, a wnewch chi gytuno i ddadlau’r achos dros ddatganoli’r gyllideb ar gyfer ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru? Yn ogystal, a wnewch chi ymrwymiad y byddwch, pe baech yn llwyddo gyda’r ddadl honno, yn sicrhau bod y ffatrïoedd Remploy hynny yn parhau i fod ar agor?

The First Minister: First, the Government fully supports Remploy workers. Many people work for Remploy. The Remploy factory in my own constituency was the first of its kind. Many people working for Remploy would find it difficult, even with the right level of support, to achieve employment elsewhere. We know that many Remploy factories have a full order book. However, there are question marks over the drive and commitment of Remploy’s senior management, in my view, to ensure that those order books continue to be full.  With regard to the devolution of the budget, that is something that I would like to explore—alongside the Minister for education—with the unions, to see if they have a settled view on this matter.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn gyntaf, mae’r Llywodraeth yn cefnogi gweithwyr Remploy yn llwyr. Mae nifer o bobl yn gweithio i Remploy. Y ffatri Remploy yn fy etholaeth i oedd y gyntaf o’i math. Byddai nifer o bobl sy’n gweithio i Remploy yn ei chael yn anodd, hyd yn oed gyda’r lefel briodol o gymorth, i gael gwaith yn unman arall. Gwyddom fod gan nifer o ffatrïoedd Remploy lyfr archeb llawn. Fodd bynnag, mae amheuaeth am gymhelliant ac ymrwymiad uwch reolwyr Remploy, yn fy marn i, i sicrhau bod y llyfrau archeb hynny yn dal ati i fod yn llawn. O ran datganoli’r gyllideb, dyna rywbeth yr hoffwn edrych arno—ynghyd â’r Gweinidog addysg—gyda’r undebau, i weld os oes ganddynt farn gytûn ar y mater yma.

Christine Chapman: First Minister, as you know, South Wales Central contains some of the poorest communities in Wales. To boost the prosperity of these communities it is essential that we boost their economies. What priority is the Welsh Government giving to supporting small businesses in those poorest areas, and to supporting new start-up businesses in particular?

Christine Chapman: Brif Weinidog, fel y gwyddoch, mae Canol De Cymru yn cynnwys rhai o’r cymunedau tlotaf yng Nghymru. Er mwyn hybu ffyniant y cymunedau hyn mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn hybu eu heconomïau. Pa flaenoriaeth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei roi i gefnogi busnesau bach yn yr ardaloedd tlotaf hynny, ac i gefnogi busnesau newydd i gychwyn yn benodol?

The First Minister: We know that small and microbusinesses play an important role in the economy of Wales. You will be aware that, among other things, the Minister has appointed a task and finish group to provide strategic guidance on the development of a microbusiness strategy for Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwyddom fod busnesau bach a microfusnesau yn chwarae rhan bwysig yn economi Cymru. Byddwch yn gwybod fod y Gweinidog, ymysg pethau eraill, wedi penodi grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen i roi arweiniad strategol ar ddatblygu strategaeth microfusnes ar gyfer Cymru. 

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Brif Weinidog, yn ystod y gaeaf diwethaf,  oherwydd y tywydd oer, gaeafol, caewyd nifer o ysgolion yng Nghymru. Yr oedd y Gweinidog addysg yn arbennig o feirniadol, gan ddweud na ddylid cau ysgol oni bai mai hynny oedd yr opsiwn olaf. Ni fyddai unrhyw un yn anghytuno â hynny. Ond, a ydych yn cydnabod ei bod yn aml yn anodd mewn ardaloedd gwledig gan mai ffyrdd gwledig yw’r olaf i gael eu clirio? Mae’n amhosibl i geir gyrraedd yr ysgol ac mae’n rhaid i brifathrawon wneud penderfyniad cynnar iawn os oes rhybudd y bydd tywydd gwael, rhag ofn na fydd posibilrwydd cyrchu’r plant o’r ysgol.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: First Minister, last winter, as a result of the cold winter weather, many schools in Wales were closed. The Minister for education was particularly critical of this, saying that schools should only be closed as a last resort. No-one would disagree with that. However, do you recognise that it is often difficult in rural areas, where the roads are the last ones to be cleared? It is impossible to get to the schools by car and headteachers have to make a very early decision on whether to close when inclement weather is forecast, in case it becomes impossible to collect the children from school.

Pa drefniadau yr ydych wedi eu gwneud i drafod â llywodraeth leol y modd y byddwch yn sicrhau bod yr heolydd hynny ar agor mewn sefyllfaoedd felly, fel nad oes bygythiad i ddiogelwch plant yn yr ysgolion?

What arrangements have you made to discuss with local government how you will ensure that those roads will be open in such situations, so that there is no threat to the safety of children in school?

2.00 p.m.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fis Rhagfyr y llynedd, rhoddwyd arweiniad i ysgolion o ran eu hagor ar dywydd difrifol wael. Mae asesiad risg generig wedi cael ei greu i helpu prifathrawon gyda’r asesiad y mae’n rhaid iddynt ei wneud o ran a ddylid cau’r ysgol.

The First Minister: In December of last year, guidance was given to schools on opening in severe weather. A generic risk assessment has been created to assist headteachers with the assessment that they need to carry out in terms of whether the school should close.

Antoinette Sandbach: A great many people in north-east Wales benefited from treatment across the border at hospitals such as the Walton Centre and Alder Hey Children’s Hospital, for example, and they are rightly concerned about the news that your Government’s policies of repatriation are leading to longer waiting lists. The number of patients waiting more than 36 weeks for orthopaedic surgery, for example, is at a record high. Does your Government recognise that continuing cross-border treatment may in many cases be in the best interests of patients? Can you give an assurance that you will protect these arrangements and prove that you are willing to put the wellbeing of patients before party ideology?

Antoinette Sandbach: Mae nifer fawr o bobl yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru wedi elwa ar gael triniaeth ar draws y ffin mewn ysbytai megis Canolfan Walton neu Ysbyty Plant Alder Hey, er enghraifft, ac mae ganddynt le i bryderu am y newyddion bod polisïau ailwladoli eich llywodraeth yn arwain at restrau aros hirach. Mae nifer y cleifion sy’n aros am fwy na 36 wythnos am lawdriniaeth orthopedig, er enghraifft, ar ei uchaf erioed. A ydyw eich Llywodraeth yn cydnabod y gallai triniaeth drawsffiniol parhaus fod yr ateb gorau i gleifion mewn sawl achos? A allwch chi roi sicrwydd y byddwch yn diogelu’r trefniadau hyn a phrofi eich bod yn barod i roi lles cleifion o flaen ideoleg pleidiol?

The First Minister: We recognise geography and we know that there are many people in north-east Wales, in particular, who need to access services across the border, just as there are specialist services that will always need to be accessed in specialist hospitals in London. However, I hope that we do not see the kinds of figures for waits of above 36 weeks that we see in England, where many more thousands of people are waiting for operations. As a percentage of the number of patients, the situation with regard to waiting times, for people waiting over 36 weeks, is far worse in England than in Wales.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym yn cydnabod daearyddiaeth a gwyddom bod nifer o bobl yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru, yn benodol, angen cael gwasanaethau ar draws y ffin, yn union fel ag y mae gwasanaethau arbenigol y bydd angen mynd i ysbytai arbenigol yn Llundain i’w cael. Fodd bynnag, gobeithio na welwn y mathau o ffigurau am aros mwy na 36 wythnos y gwelwn yn Lloegr, lle mae miloedd mwy o bobl yn aros am lawdriniaethau. Fel canran o nifer y cleifion, mae’r sefyllfa o ran pobl yn aros dros 36 wythnos yn llawer gwaeth yn Lloegr nag yng Nghymru.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: A wnewch chi ymuno â mi, Brif Weinidog, wrth longyfarch ymddiriedolaeth cefnogwyr Wrecsam ar lwyddo i sicrhau pryniant y clwb o’r diwedd a drwy hynny hefyd, gydnabod rôl allweddol Prifysgol Glyndŵr, sydd wedi sicrhau perchnogaeth y Cae Ras, sydd, yn fy marn i a nifer o bobl eraill, yn tanlinellu pwysigrwydd y sefydliad hwnnw i ogledd ddwyrain Cymru?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Will you join me, First Minister, in congratulating the Wrexham supporters trust on ensuring the purchase of the club at last and, in so doing, acknowledge the crucial role of Glyndŵr University, which has ensured ownership of the Racecourse, which, in my view and that of a number of others, underlines the importance of that institution to north-east Wales?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn falch dros ben bod dyfodol clwb pêl droed Wrecsam wedi ei sicrhau ar ôl blynyddoedd o ansicrwydd a bod un o glybiau hynaf Cymru’n mynd i chwarae rhan allweddol ym myd chwaraeon Cymru yn y dyfodol.

The First Minister: I am very pleased to see that the future of Wrexham football club has been secured after years of uncertainty and that one of Wales’s oldest clubs will play a key role in Welsh sport in future.

The First Minister: We work closely with the Money Advice Service. We know that it helps very many people when it comes to advice. Demand is clearly high in the current financial climate and we are working with it to ensure that people are aware of all the services that it offers.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rydym yn cydweithio’n agos â’r Gwasanaeth Cyngor am Arian. Gwyddom ei fod yn helpu llawr iawn o bobl pan mae’n dod i gyngor. Mae’r galw yn amlwg yn uchel yn yr hinsawdd ariannol bresennol ac rydym yn cydweithio ag ef i sicrhau bod pobl yn gwybod am bob gwasanaeth y mae’n ei gynnig.

Mark Drakeford: The Department for Work and Pensions announced recently its intention to make benefit payments monthly rather than fortnightly. Would you agree that this can only add to the difficulties for many hard-pressed families in managing on their very limited budgets and that this can only add to the demands already experienced by the Money Advice Service?

Mark Drakeford: Cyhoeddodd yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau ei fwriad yn ddiweddar i wneud taliadau budd-dal pob mis yn hytrach na phob pythefnos. A fyddech yn cytuno mai dim ond ychwanegu at anawsterau teuluoedd dan bwysau o ran rheoli eu cyllidebau cyfyngedig iawn a wnaiff hyn, ac y gwnaiff hyn ddim ond ychwanegu at y galw sydd eisoes ar y Gwasanaeth Cyngor am Arian?

The First Minister: As we encourage people to manage their finances properly, it can only be detrimental when the UK Government makes it much more difficult for them to do so. It is undoubtedly correct that that will provide the Money Advice Service with more work; its services will, inevitably, be in more demand, and this has been done at a time when so many people are worried because of the situation of the world economy and the UK Government’s failure to offer something tangible to deal with it.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gan ein bod yn annog pobl i reoli eu harian yn briodol, mae’n andwyol pan fo Llywodraeth y DU yn ei gwneud yn llawer anos i wneud hynny. Nid oes amheuaeth ei bod yn gywir i ddweud y bydd hynny’n rhoi mwy o waith i’r Gwasanaeth Cyngor am Arian; bydd mwy o alw am ei wasanaethau, yn anochel, a gwnaed hyn ar adeg pan fo cymaint o bobl yn poeni oherwydd y sefyllfa sy’n wynebu’r economi fyd-eang a methiant Llywodraeth y DU i gynnig rhywbeth cadarn i ddelio ag ef.

Nick Ramsay: I concur with Mark Drakeford’s comments about the hard work done by the Money Advice Service.

Nick Ramsay: Rwyf yn cytuno â sylwadau Mark Drakeford am y gwaith caled a wneir gan y Gwasanaeth Cyngor am Arian.

First Minister, clearly, the families that need to access money advice services, which are among our poorest families in Wales, would benefit from lower tax rates. Would you join me in supporting the UK coalition Government’s move towards taking families with an income of less than £10,000 out of the tax bracket, particularly considering the detrimental effect that the previous UK Government’s decision to scrap the 10p tax rate had on those families?

Brif Weinidog, mae’n amlwg bod teuluoedd y mae arnynt angen defnyddio gwasanaethau cyngor am arian, sydd ymysg ein teuluoedd tlotaf yng Nghymru, yn elwa o gyfraddau treth is. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i gefnogi bwriad Llywodraeth y DU i dynnu teuluoedd sydd ag incwm llai na £10,000 allan o’r ystod treth, yn enwedig o gofio am yr effaith andwyol a gafodd penderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU blaenorol i gael gwared ar y gyfradd dreth 10c ar y teuluoedd hynny?

The First Minister: I would welcome anything that takes the low paid out of tax, of course, but I also note the desire of the UK Government to force people to pay for their medicines. That does not happen in Wales. I note the promise that was broken, starkly, by the Prime Minister on winter fuel allowances—it was made and broken by the Prime Minister—and I note the plans to do away with the concessionary bus travel scheme. It is important that those in need are helped the most, but we know that the UK Government will not do that.

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddwn yn croesawu unrhyw beth sy’n golygu nad yw’r rhai ar gyflogau isel yn gorfod talu treth, wrth gwrs, ond rwyf hefyd yn nodi dymuniad Llywodraeth y DU i orfodi pobl i dalu am eu meddyginiaethau. Nid yw hynny’n digwydd yng Nghymru. Nodaf yr addewid a dorrwyd, yn llwyr, gan y Prif Weinidog ar lwfansau tanwydd gaeaf—cafodd ei gwneud a’i thorri gan y Prif Weinidog—a nodaf y cynlluniau i gael gwared ar y cynllun teithio’n rhatach ar fysys. Mae’n bwysig bod y rhai mewn angen yn cael yr help mwyaf, ond gwyddom na fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn gwneud hynny.

Simon Thomas: I am sure that the First Minister agrees with Ed Miliband when he said that we want to end the asset-stripping and fast-buck culture. What steps will your Government take to stop the pay-day loan companies from ripping off hundreds and thousands of poor people in our communities and putting more pressure on our money advice services? This morning, I could have got a pay-day loan from Wonga at 4,214 per cent or from QuickQuid at 1,734 per cent APR. I did not take up these offers. What will his Government do, perhaps in association with the Westminster Government, to introduce a cap on these ridiculous interest rates in Wales?

Simon Thomas: Rwy’n siŵr bod y Prif Weinidog yn cytuno ag Ed Miliband pan ddywedodd ein bod eisiau rhoi terfyn ar y diwylliant stripio asedau a gwneud arian yn gyflym. Pa gamau y gwnaiff eich Llywodraeth eu cymryd i atal cwmnïau benthyciadau diwrnod cyflog i dwyllo cannoedd ar filoedd o bobl dlawd yn ein cymunedau a rhoi mwy o bwysau ar ein gwasanaethau cyngor am arian? Y bore yma, gallwn fod wedi cael benthyciad diwrnod cyflog gan Wonga am 4,214 y cant neu gan QuickQuid am 1,734 y cant APR. Ni fanteisiais ar y cynigion hyn. Beth wnaiff ei Lywodraeth, efallai ar y cyd â Llywodraeth San Steffan, i gyflwyno terfyn ar y cyfraddau llog ynfyd hyn yng Nghymru?

The First Minister: I agree entirely. Most of these companies operate outside Wales, of course, although people in Wales have access to them. We can ensure that more people are aware of the credit unions and the services they provide. When people see what credit unions can do, these companies that charge extortionate interest rates will start to lose their customer base.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr. Mae’r rhan fwyaf o’r cwmnïau hyn yn gweithredu y tu allan i Gymru, wrth gwrs, er bod pobl yng Nghymru yn gallu eu defnyddio. Gallwn sicrhau bod mwy o bobl yn gwybod am undebau credyd a’r gwasanaethau sydd ganddynt. Pan fo pobl yn gweld beth y gall undebau credyd ei wneud, bydd y cwmnïau hyn sy’n codi cyfraddau llog afresymol yn dechrau colli eu cwsmeriaid.

Darren Millar: First Minister, I am very concerned about the loss of banks in communities the length and breadth of the country, including my own constituency in Kinmel Bay and in Rhos-on-Sea, where HSBC has taken the decision to close branches. That has an impact on people who want to access cash or advice from their local bank. What discussions has your Government had with the banking industry regarding the prevalence of closures in Wales? What action are you able to take, perhaps in conjunction with the UK Government, to address this problem?

Darren Millar: Brif Weinidog, rwy’n bryderus iawn am golli banciau mewn cymunedau ar hyd a lled y wlad, gan gynnwys yn fy etholaeth i ym Mae Cinmel a Llandrillo, lle mae HSBC wedi penderfynu cau canghennau. Mae hyn yn cael effaith ar bobl sydd eisiau cael arian parod neu gyngor gan eu banc lleol. Pa drafodaethau gafodd eich Llywodraeth gyda’r diwydiant bancio am y ffaith bod cymaint o fanciau’n cau yng Nghymru? Pa gamau ydych chi’n gallu eu cymryd, efallai ar y cyd â Llywodraeth y DU, i ymdrin â’r broblem hon?

The First Minister: These are decisions for the banks, of course. Our view has always been that there are communities where it is essential to have a bank branch. There are a number of communities in Wales where there is no longer a bank branch. The post office then becomes extremely important as a source of cash and a place to save, and we want to ensure that more and more post offices, working with the credit unions and the commercial banks, are able to offer to communities the financial services that are removed when the bank closes a branch.

Y Prif Weinidog: Penderfyniadau i’r banciau yw’r rhain, wrth gwrs. Ein barn ni bob amser yw bod yna gymunedau lle y mae’n hanfodol cael cangen banc. Mae sawl cymuned yng Nghymru lle nad oes cangen banc mwyach. Mae swyddfa’r post wedyn yn dod yn hynod bwysig fel ffynhonnell arian parod a rhywle i gynilo, ac rydym eisiau gwneud yn siŵr bod mwy a mwy o swyddfeydd post, mewn cydweithrediad ag undebau credyd a’r banciau masnachol, yn gallu cynnig gwasanaethau ariannol i gymunedau sy’n cael eu cymryd i ffwrdd pan fo banc yn cau cangen.

2.15 p.m.          

The First Minister: A park and ride scheme, as suggested by its very name, has a bus leaving from a parking area. Inevitably, when people park their cars, they are able to get on a bus and get into city or town centres. Cardiff and Swansea are good examples of this, and there are other examples of where this works. We know that in many of our town and city centres, it often makes more sense for people to park outside and get a free bus in, rather than spending a long time driving around, trying to find a car parking space.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae cynllun parcio a theithio, fel yr awgrymir gan ei enw, yn golygu bws yn gadael o ardal barcio. Yn anochel, pan mae pobl yn parcio eu ceir, maent yn gallu mynd ar fws a mynd i ganol y ddinas neu ganol y dref. Mae Caerdydd ac Abertawe yn enghreifftiau da o hyn, ac mae enghreifftiau eraill lle mae hyn yn gweithio. Gwyddom ei fod yn gwneud mwy o synnwyr, yn aml, o ran canol llawer o’n dinasoedd a’n trefi, i bobl barcio y tu allan a dal bws am ddim i mewn, yn hytrach na threulio amser hir yn gyrru o gwmpas, yn ceisio dod o hyd i le parcio car.

Mike Hedges: I see rail electrification as a key part of an integrated transport policy. In yesterday’s Western Mail, there was an article, which I hope you read, in which it was stated that the case for electrifying railways has been slammed as flawed over emissions. Will you be raising this issue with the Westminster Government?

Mike Hedges: Rwy’n gweld trydaneiddio rheilffyrdd fel rhan allweddol o bolisi trafnidiaeth integredig. Yn y Western Mail ddoe roedd erthygl—rwy’n gobeithio y gwnaethoch ei ddarllen—lle nodwyd bod yr achos dros drydaneiddio’r rheilffyrdd wedi cael ei gondemnio am fod yn ddiffygiol o ran allyriadau. A fyddwch yn codi’r mater hwn gyda Llywodraeth San Steffan?

The First Minister: Our position has always been that electrification should take place as far as Swansea, and that it should not stop at Cardiff. There are dangers in electrification stopping at Cardiff: it implies that Cardiff is the end of the main line. We know that, as far as the south Wales main line is concerned, Swansea is the terminus. The concern has to be that, over time, if that situation continues, inter-city services from London will tend to terminate at Cardiff rather than further west.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ein safbwynt ni ers y cychwyn yw y dylai trydaneiddio ddigwydd cyn belled ag Abertawe, ac na ddylai ddod i ben yng Nghaerdydd. Mae yna beryglon mewn trydaneiddio yn dod i ben yng Nghaerdydd: mae’n awgrymu mai Caerdydd yw diwedd y brif linell. Gwyddom mai Abertawe yw’r terminws, o ran prif linell y de. Y pryder yw, dros amser, os bydd y sefyllfa’n parhau, bydd gwasanaethau rhyng-ddinesig o Lundain yn tueddu i derfynu yng Nghaerdydd yn hytrach nag ymhellach i’r gorllewin.

Eluned Parrott: A transport system may be integrated for able-bodied people, but it is a very different matter for people with disabilities, such as those who are visually impaired, to get from a bus stop to a railway station. What is your Government doing to ensure that people with mobility difficulties and visual impairments can move effectively between different forms of transport?

Eluned Parrott: Gall system drafnidiaeth fod yn integredig i bobl nad ydynt yn anabl, ond mater gwahanol iawn ydyw i bobl sydd ag anableddau, megis y rhai sydd â nam ar eu golwg, i fynd o safle bws i orsaf reilffordd. Beth mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau y gall pobl ag anawsterau symudedd a nam ar y golwg symud yn effeithiol rhwng gwahanol fathau o gludiant?

The First Minister: There has been work with bus operators, particularly with regard to people who are visually impaired. There has been work with bus operators over the years in relation to people who are physically impaired. We have also provided help for schemes to make railway stations more accessible than they were.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae gwaith wedi cael ei wneud gyda gweithredwyr bysiau, yn enwedig o ran pobl sydd â nam ar eu golwg. Mae gwaith wedi cael ei wneud gyda gweithredwyr bysiau dros y blynyddoedd mewn perthynas â phobl sydd â nam corfforol. Rydym hefyd wedi darparu cymorth ar gyfer cynlluniau i wneud gorsafoedd rheilffordd yn fwy hygyrch nag yr oeddent.

Bethan Jenkins: Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw. Fel yr Aelod lleol, byddwch yn deall y gwrthwynebiad lleol cryf yn yr ardal hon i gloddio glo brig, a byddwch felly yn deall y siom ymhlith ymgyrchwyr fod cwmni Celtic Energy Limited wedi gwerthu rhan o’i gwmni yn ddiweddar i gwmni yn Ynysoedd Prydeinig y Wyryf. A ydych felly yn rhannu fy mhryder bod Celtic Energy Limited wedi gwneud y penderfyniad hwn i atal craffu gan bobl leol, a’i fod wedi cymryd cam yn ôl o ran bod yn agored fel cwmni sydd wedi ei sefydlu a’i leoli yng Nghymru?

Bethan Jenkins: Thank you for that response. As a local Member, you will understand the strong local opposition in this area to opencast mining, and you will therefore understand the disappointment of campaigners that Celtic Energy Limited recently sold part of its business to a company in the British Virgin Islands. Do you therefore share my concerns that Celtic Energy has taken this decision to prevent scrutiny by local people, and that it has taken a step back from being an open company that is based here in Wales?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn gwybod yn iawn beth yw’r sefyllfa ymysg pobl leol fel rhywun sydd wedi bod yn gwrando arnynt am bron i bum mlynedd ynglŷn â’r safle hwn. Fodd bynnag, gan siarad dros y Llywodraeth, mae hwn yn fater sydd o dan reolaeth y llysoedd ar hyn o bryd ac felly ni fyddai’n gall i mi wneud unrhyw fath o ddatganiad ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa hon nes bod y llysoedd wedi penderfynu.

The First Minister: I know well what the position of the local people is, as someone who has been listening to them for almost five years about this site. However, in speaking for the Government, this matter is subject to the courts at present and it would therefore be unwise of me to make any kind of statement on this situation until the courts have decided.

The First Minister: I have had no recent discussions with the Prime Minister on this matter.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau diweddar gyda’r Prif Weinidog ar y mater hwn.

Julie Morgan: Does the First Minister agree that any significant change planned in the balance of seats or in the voting system for the Assembly would require a referendum, in view of the fact that the present number and the balance of seats was put to a referendum in 1997 when the Assembly was set up?

Julie Morgan: A ydyw’r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno y byddai unrhyw newid sylweddol arfaethedig yng nghydbwysedd y seddi neu yn y system bleidleisio ar gyfer y Cynulliad yn gofyn am refferendwm, yn wyneb y ffaith bod y nifer cyfredol a chydbwysedd y seddi wedi bod yn destun refferendwm ym 1997 pan sefydlwyd y Cynulliad?

The First Minister: There was a referendum over the voting system at Westminster, and if the people’s view was sought for that regarding Westminster elections, it is perfectly right that people’s views should be sought regarding elections to this place. I do not see how the electoral system of the Assembly can be changed without the issue at least being put forward in an election, with parties including proposals in their manifestos for any new arrangements for this Assembly. To change the system now, without the consent or approval of the people of Wales, would be quite wrong.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr oedd refferendwm dros y system bleidleisio yn San Steffan, ac os gofynnwyd barn y bobl am hynny, ynghylch etholiadau San Steffan, mae’n gwbl gywir y dylid gofyn barn y bobl ynghylch etholiadau i’r lle hwn. Nid wyf yn gweld sut y gall system etholiadol y Cynulliad gael ei newid heb i’r mater gael ei gyflwyno mewn etholiad, o leiaf, gyda’r pleidiau’n cynnwys cynigion yn eu maniffestos ar gyfer unrhyw drefniadau newydd ar gyfer y Cynulliad hwn. Byddai newid y system yn awr, heb gydsyniad neu gymeradwyaeth pobl Cymru, yn gwbl anghywir.

Antoinette Sandbach: Does the First Minister agree that it is in the interest of fairness that a vote in one constituency should count as much as a vote in any other constituency? Can he confirm that this principle of equal weighting for each vote and addressing the inconsistencies that currently exist will be a guiding principle for his Government’s support for future changes to the electoral system in Wales?

Antoinette Sandbach: A ydyw’r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno mai er tegwch y dylai pleidlais mewn un etholaeth gyfrif cymaint â phleidlais mewn unrhyw etholaeth arall? A all gadarnhau y bydd yr egwyddor hon o bwysoli cyfartal ar gyfer pob pleidlais, a mynd i’r afael â’r anghysondebau sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd, yn egwyddor arweiniol am gefnogaeth ei Lywodraeth ar gyfer newidiadau yn y dyfodol i’r system etholiadol yng Nghymru?

The First Minister: It is not being addressed at a UK level, because there are exceptions—surprise, surprise—for Scotland, because of the Scottish influence that we know exists within the UK Government. That principle of equal weighting of votes is not being applied across the whole of the UK. If it were, perhaps the argument would be different.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid yw’n cael sylw ar lefel y Deyrnas Unedig, oherwydd mae yna eithriadau—credwch neu beidio—ar gyfer yr Alban, oherwydd y dylanwad Albanaidd y gwyddom iddo fodoli o fewn Llywodraeth y DU. Nid yw’r egwyddor honno o bwysoli cyfartal o ran pleidleisiau yn cael ei chymhwyso ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan. Petai felly, efallai y byddai’r ddadl yn wahanol.

The First Minister: The collaborative footprint for public services provides a clear framework for public service reform and service delivery. That is as true in Swansea bay as it is elsewhere.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’r ôl troed cydweithredol ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn darparu fframwaith clir ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a darparu gwasanaethau. Mae hynny yr un mor wir ym mae Abertawe ag y mae mewn mannau eraill.

Julie James: Thank you for that, First Minister. In a time of constrained finances and cuts to the Welsh block grant by the Tories and Liberal Democrats in London, do you agree that we can provide excellent, efficient and more consistent services for the citizens of our constituencies and gain considerable savings by dispensing with the expensive consultants in joined-up services, especially when they are based outside Wales?

Julie James: Diolch am hynny, Brif Weinidog. Mewn cyfnod o gyllid cyfyngedig a thoriadau i grant bloc Cymru gan y Torïaid a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn Llundain, a gytunwch y gallwn ddarparu gwasanaethau rhagorol, effeithlon a mwy cyson i ddinasyddion ein hetholaethau ac ennill arbedion sylweddol drwy hepgor yr ymgynghorwyr drud mewn gwasanaethau cydgysylltiedig, yn enwedig pan fyddant wedi’u lleoli y tu allan i Gymru?

The First Minister: Yes, I agree with that comment.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ydwyf, yr wyf yn cytuno â’r sylw hwnnw.

The First Minister: We have, for example, encouraged social enterprises by providing £8 million to the social enterprise support project led by the Wales Co-operative Centre.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym, er enghraifft, wedi annog mentrau cymdeithasol drwy ddarparu £8 miliwn i’r prosiect cymorth i fentrau cymdeithasol dan arweiniad Canolfan Cydweithredol Cymru.

Suzy Davies: May I take this opportunity to thank the Minister for business for a reply that she gave me on 16 August indicating three sources of advice for social enterprises. The letter did not refer to the Welsh Social Enterprise Coalition. What discussion has the Government had with the Welsh Social Enterprise Coalition and local authorities about being open to approaches from social enterprises and further ensuring that, from a bureaucracy point of view, social enterprises are not disadvantaged from making such approaches?

Suzy Davies: Hoffwn gymryd y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i’r Gweinidog busnes am ateb a roddodd i mi ar 16 Awst yn nodi tri ffynhonnell cyngor ar gyfer mentrau cymdeithasol. Nid oedd y llythyr yn cyfeirio at Gynghrair Mentrau Cymdeithasol Cymru. Pa drafodaethau y mae’r Llywodraeth wedi’u cael gyda Chynghrair Mentrau Cymdeithasol Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol am fod yn agored i gynigion gan fentrau cymdeithasol a sicrhau ymhellach, o safbwynt biwrocratiaeth, nad yw mentrau cymdeithasol yn cael eu rhoi dan anfantais drwy wneud cynigion o’r fath?

The First Minister: The social enterprise ministerial advisory group ensures that the views of the Welsh Social Enterprise Coalition and other organisations are made known to the Minister so that she is better able to understand the challenges and opportunities presented by the sector.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae grŵp cynghori’r Gweinidog ar fentrau cymdeithasol yn sicrhau bod barn Cynghrair Mentrau Cymdeithasol Cymru a sefydliadau eraill yn cael ei wneud yn wybyddus i’r Gweinidog fel ei bod yn gallu deall yr heriau a’r cyfleoedd a gyflwynir gan y sector yn well.

The Presiding Officer: Obviously, some of you read my e-mail and some of you did not, or you might have read it and ignored it. If you would like to re-read it, I would be grateful.

Y Llywydd: Mae’n amlwg bod rhai ohonoch wedi darllen fy e-bost a bod rhai ohonoch heb wneud hynny, neu efallai eich bod wedi ei ddarllen ac wedi ei anwybyddu. Os hoffech ei ail-ddarllen, byddwn yn ddiolchgar.

Pwynt o Drefn
Point of Order

Andrew R.T. Davies: I wish to raise the question of accuracy when Members comment on other Members’ comments in the media. It is important that those comments are accurate and reflect what was said. I ask the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth to consider the comments that he made today in light of what he believes he read in the media and to try to correlate the two, because he will find no correlation between the verbatim Record of what he said here today and the point that I was making in the media. I hope that you will direct him to do that, Presiding Officer.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Hoffwn godi’r cwestiwn o gywirdeb wrth i Aelodau wneud sylwadau ar sylwadau Aelodau eraill yn y cyfryngau. Mae’n bwysig bod y sylwadau hynny yn gywir ac yn adlewyrchu’r hyn a ddywedwyd. Gofynnaf i’r Aelod dros Dde Caerdydd a Phenarth i ystyried y sylwadau a wnaeth heddiw yng ngoleuni’r hyn y mae’n credu ei fod wedi ei ddarllen yn y cyfryngau ac i geisio cydberthynas rhwng y ddau, oherwydd ni ddaw o hyd i unrhyw gydberthynas rhwng y Cofnod gair-am-air o’r hyn a ddywedodd yma heddiw a’r pwynt yr oeddwn yn ei wneud yn y cyfryngau. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch yn ei gyfeirio at wneud hynny, Lywydd.

The Presiding Officer: I suggest that the Member reads the Record. I am not responsible for the accuracy of Members’ contributions, but I ask that all Members ensure that, when they make a contribution, it is accurate. Perhaps the Member would like to read the Record, and if what Andrew R.T. Davies is saying is correct, perhaps he would care to withdraw his comment.

Y Llywydd: Yr wyf yn awgrymu bod yr Aelod yn darllen y Cofnod. Nid wyf yn gyfrifol am gywirdeb cyfraniadau Aelodau, ond gofynnaf fod pob Aelod yn sicrhau, pan maent yn gwneud cyfraniad, ei fod yn gywir. Efallai yr hoffai’r Aelod ddarllen y Cofnod, ac os yw’r hyn a ddywedwyd gan Andrew R.T. Davies yn gywir, efallai yr hoffai dynnu ei sylwadau yn ôl.

Vaughan Gething: I will happily read the Record and reconsider the matter.

Vaughan Gething: Byddaf yn falch o ddarllen y Cofnod ac ailystyried y mater.

Cyhoeddiad gan y Llywydd
Announcement by the Presiding Officer

The Presiding Officer: I am pleased to announce that on 19 October, I will hold a ballot for Members to submit proposals for Bills under Standing Order No. 26.87. This is the first opportunity that Members will have in the fourth Assembly to propose ideas for the use of our new legislative powers. The Table Office will circulate further details on the ballot process to Members in due course. I am sure that Members will read that with much more interest than the e-mail that I sent you. This is a good opportunity and I urge you all to take advantage of it.

Y Llywydd: Mae’n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi y byddaf yn cynnal balot ar 19 Hydref i Aelodau gyflwyno cynigion ar gyfer Biliau o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 26.87. Dyma’r cyfle cyntaf yn y pedwerydd Cynulliad i Aelodau gynnig syniadau ar gyfer defnyddio ein pwerau deddfwriaethol newydd. Bydd y Swyddfa Gyflwyno’n dosbarthu manylion pellach am broses y balot i Aelodau maes o law. Mae’n siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau’n darllen hynny gyda llawer mwy o ddiddordeb na’r e-bost a anfonais atoch. Mae hwn yn gyfle da ac yr wyf yn eich annog i gyd i fanteisio arno.

Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes
Business Statement and Announcement

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): This week’s Government business is as set out in the agenda papers for today and tomorrow. Business for the next three weeks is shown in the business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Mae Busnes y Llywodraeth yr wythnos hon fel ag y mae wedi’i nodi ym mhapurau’r agenda ar gyfer heddiw ac yfory. Mae busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf yn cael ei ddangos yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, y gellir eu gweld ymhlith papurau’r agenda sydd ar gael i Aelodau’n electronig.

William Graham: Minister, I ask you to consider bringing forth a debate on some of the good things that are happening in industry in Wales, particularly in the present economic climate. I refer particularly to the job losses at BAE Systems in England, whereas, in Wales, £50 million is being spent by that company in Monmouthshire. It is a good-news story, and we should have more debates saying what is going on for the people of Wales.

William Graham: Weinidog, gofynnaf ichi ystyried cyflwyno dadl ar rai o’r pethau da sy’n digwydd mewn diwydiant yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn yr hinsawdd economaidd sydd ohoni. Cyfeiriaf yn arbennig at y swyddi a gollwyd yn BAE Systems yn Lloegr; tra bod £50 miliwn yn cael ei wario gan y cwmni hwnnw, yng Nghymru—yn sir Fynwy. Mae’n stori newyddion-da, a dylem gael mwy o ddadleuon yn trafod yr hyn sy’n digwydd i bobl Cymru.

2.30 p.m.

Jane Hutt: That will be reflected not only in the programme of government, but in the measures that we are taking. The draft budget comes before us next week, but the good news has to be reflected by Ministers.

Jane Hutt: Bydd hynny nid yn unig yn cael ei adlewyrchu yn y rhaglen lywodraethu, ond hefyd yn y mesurau rydym yn eu cymryd. Mae’r gyllideb ddrafft yn dod ger ein bron wythnos nesaf, ond mae’n rhaid i’r newyddion da gael ei adlewyrchu gan Weinidogion.

Mark Drakeford: Yr oeddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn i’r Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol dros yr haf am ei datganiadau am sefyllfa Southern Cross Healthcare. Mae’r cwmni newydd gyhoeddi’r rhestr gyntaf o gartrefi preswyl y bydd yn eu trosglwyddo i’r cwmnïau newydd. A ellir cael datganiad arall ynglŷn â’r sefyllfa ddiweddaraf?

Mark Drakeford: I was very grateful to the Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services over the summer for her statements on the Southern Cross Healthcare situation. The company has just published the first list of residential homes that it will be transferring to the new companies. Could we have another statement on the latest situation?

Jane Hutt: The Member for Cardiff West rightly acknowledges the statements that have been made by the Deputy Minister for social services on 25 July and, indeed, last week, on 19 September. The announcements from Southern Cross today have to be considered carefully. It is an important step that is being taken in terms of the orderly transfer of care homes, but I will say on behalf of the Deputy Minister that I understand that, under the Care Standards Act 2000, applications for new providers to be registered to run all of the 33 Southern Cross care homes in Wales are currently being considered and assessed by the Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales on an independent basis.

Jane Hutt: Mae’r Aelod dros Orllewin Caerdydd yn gywir i gydnabod y datganiadau a wnaed gan y Dirprwy Weinidog gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ar 25 Gorffennaf, ac, yn wir, wythnos diwethaf ar 19 Medi. Mae’n rhaid ystyried y cyhoeddiadau a wnaed heddiw gan Southern Cross yn ofalus. Mae’n gam bwysig o ran trosglwyddo cartrefi gofal yn drefnus, ond dywedaf ar ran y Dirprwy Weinidog fy mod ar ddeall, o dan Ddeddf Safonau Gofal 2000, fod ceisiadau i ddarparwyr newydd gael eu cofrestru i redeg bob un o’r 33 cartref gofal sydd gan Soutern Cross yng Nghymru yn cael eu hystyried a’u hasesu yn annibynnol ar y funud gan Arolygiaeth Gofal a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru.

Kirsty Williams: Would the Minister gently encourage the Minister for Local Government and Communities—who has responsibility for transport—to make a statement on the availability this winter of concessionary fares on the heart of Wales line by tabling a debate on rural transport?

Kirsty Williams: A wnewch chi annog yn dyner y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau—sydd â chyfrifoldeb am drafnidiaeth—i wneud datganiad ar argaeledd tocynnau teithio rhatach y gaeaf hwn ar linell calon Cymru drwy gyflwyno dadl ar drafnidiaeth wledig? 

Jane Hutt: I do not think that gentle reminders are necessary with the Minister for Local Government and Communities. He is quite capable of hearing from you about the importance of these issues.

Jane Hutt: Ni chredaf bod angen atgoffa’r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau’n dyner. Mae’n ddigon posibl iddo glywed gennych chi am ba mor bwysig yw’r materion hyn.

Bethan Jenkins: A fyddai’n bosibl i’r Llywodraeth amlinellu mewn datganiad ei hymateb i ymgynghoriad yr Adran Busnes, Arloesedd a Sgiliau ar y tirwedd defnyddwyr, ac a allem gael copi o’r ymateb? Mae hyn yn ymwneud â dyfodol Llais Defnyddwyr Cymru. A fyddai’r datganiad yn gallu rhoi rhyw fath o syniad inni a yw’r Llywodraeth yn cefnogi datganoli pŵer dros eiriolaeth defnyddwyr i Gymru, er mwyn inni allu penderfynu pa fodel fyddai orau inni yma yng Nghymru, yn hytrach na’n bod yn rhan o’r hyn sy’n cael ei drafod ar lefel Brydeinig?

Bethan Jenkins: Would it be possible for the Government to outline in a statement its response to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills’ consultation on the consumer landscape, and could we have a copy of that response? This deals with the future of Consumer Voice Wales. Could that statement provide us with some sort of idea of whether the Government supports devolution of consumer advocacy to Wales, so that we can decide which model will best suit us in Wales rather than being part of what is being discussed at the UK level.

Hefyd, a oes modd inni gael trafodaeth yma ar lawr y Cynulliad yn amser y Llywodraeth ar ddyfodol darlledu yng Nghymru? Credaf fod pwynt inni gael y drafodaeth hon yng nghyd-destun y ffaith bod S4C yn awr yn wynebu newidiadau sylweddol a’r BBC a’r wasg leol yn wynebu toriadau.

Also, could we have a debate here in the Chamber in Government time on the future of broadcasting in Wales? Such a debate would be timely in the context of the fact that S4C is facing substantial changes and that the BBC and local press are facing cuts.

Jane Hutt: It is important that we consider as Ministers our impact in terms of the future of Consumer Voice. We have had very strong representations about this, and the impact of a loss of focus is even more important, as we heard earlier during questions to the First Minister. That is clearly something that the Government is considering carefully.

Jane Hutt: Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn ystyried ein heffaith fel Gweinidogion ar ddyfodol Llais Defnyddwyr Cymru. Cawsom sylwadau cryf iawn am hyn, ac mae effaith y colli ffocws hyd yn oed yn bwysicach, fel y clywsom yn gynharach yn ystod cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog. Mae hyn yn amlwg yn rhywbeth mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei ystyried yn ofalus.

In terms of the future of broadcasting, you have an opportunity as a Member to question the Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage tomorrow during his oral Assembly questions.

O ran dyfodol darlledu, mae gennych gyfle fel Aelod i holi’r Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Threftadaeth fory yn ystod ei gwestiynau llafar yn y Cynulliad.  

Mark Isherwood: Would the Welsh Government make a statement to coincide with the UK Older People’s Day next Saturday, 1 October, coinciding with the UN International Day of Older Persons, with the theme of getting and staying active in later life? I am thinking particularly of the action that the Welsh Government is taking to encourage people to be active, to raise awareness of the benefits of physical, social and mental activity and preparing for a positive later life.

Mark Isherwood: A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru wneud datganiad i gyd-fynd â Diwrnod Pobl Hŷn y DU dydd Sadwrn nesaf, 1 Hydref, sy’n cyd-fynd â Diwrnod Rhyngwladol Pobl Hŷn y Cenhedloedd Unedig, sydd â thema cadw ac aros yn egnïol yn hwyrach mewn oes? Rwy’n meddwl yn benodol am y camau mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i annog pobl i fod yn egnïol, i godi ymwybyddiaeth o fanteision gweithgarwch corfforol, cymdeithasol a meddyliol a pharatoi am fywyd cadarnhaol yn hwyrach mewn oes.

Jane Hutt: The Member for North Wales rightly knows how well regarded by older people our older people’s strategy is, in all its aspects, including the encouragement of health and wellbeing. I know that the Minister will be focusing on this important occasion in terms of global recognition.

Jane Hutt: Mae’r Aelod dros Ogledd Cymru yn gwybod faint o barch sydd gan bobl hŷn at ein strategaeth pobl hŷn, yn ei holl agweddau, gan gynnwys annog iechyd a lles. Gwn y bydd y Gweinidog yn canolbwyntio ar yr achlysur pwysig hwn o ran y gydnabyddiaeth fyd-eang sydd iddo.

Leanne Wood: It is likely that, during November, there will be a public sector workers strike that will impact on the Assembly’s business. Could we have a statement from the First Minister in good time so that Members can consider its full implications?

Leanne Wood: Yn ystod mis Tachwedd, mae’n debyg y bydd streic gan weithwyr sector cyhoeddus a fydd yn effeithio ar fusnes y Cynulliad. Allwn ni gael datganiad gan y Prif Weinidog mewn da bryd fel bod Aelodau yn gallu ei hoblygiadau yn llawn?

Jane Hutt: Clearly, we hope that negotiations will proceed to ensure that these very important issues are dealt with. This is, of course, a matter for the UK Government.

Jane Hutt: Yn amlwg, rydym y gobeithio y bydd trafodaethau yn mynd yn eu blaen i sicrhau bod y materion pwysig iawn hyn yn cael eu datrys. Mater yw hwn, wrth gwrs, i Lywodraeth y DU.

Antoinette Sandbach: Over the summer, the Deputy Minister for Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and European Programmes issued a number of policy statements, including on support for the organic sector in Wales, the young entrant support scheme and, with his fisheries hat on, the future management of mussel beds in north Wales. Will you allow time for the Deputy Minister to make an oral statement, so that Members can question him on these matters? I hope that you have had the opportunity of tasting the delicious mussels that are produced in north Wales; you will be aware of how they fly the flag for that sector in north Wales.

Antoinette Sandbach: Dros yr haf, cyhoeddodd y Dirprwy Weinidog Amaethyddiaeth, Bwyd, Pysgodfeydd a Rhaglenni Ewropeaidd nifer o ddatganiadau polisi, gan gynnwys cymorth i’r sector organig yng Nghymru, y cynllun cymorth i newydd-ddyfodiaid, ac, yn gwisgo ei het bysgodfeydd, rheoli gwelyau cregyn gleision yng ngogledd Cymru yn y dyfodol. A wnewch chi ganiatáu amser i’r Dirprwy Weinidog wneud datganiad llafar, fel y gall Aelodau ei holi ar y materion hyn? Gobeithio y cawsoch gyfle i flasu’r cregyn gleision blasus iawn a gynhyrchir yng ngogledd Cymru; byddwch yn gwybod am y modd y maent yn hyrwyddo’r sector hwnnw yng ngogledd Cymru.

Jane Hutt: We note the north Wales Member’s interest in these matters, particularly in relation to mussel production and eating habits in Wales. [Laughter.] One has to say that the Deputy Minister has been very busy over the summer months and he will be coming forward with a statement to reflect developments.

Jane Hutt: Rydym yn nodi diddordeb yr Aelod dros Ogledd Cymru yn y materion hyn, yn enwedig o ran cynhyrchu ac arferion bwyta cregyn gleision yng Nghymru. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud bod y Dirprwy Weinidog wedi bod yn brysur iawn dros fisoedd yr haf a bydd yn dod ger bron gyda datganiad i adlewyrchu’r datblygiadau.

Suzy Davies: At the end of the last Assembly, the Chamber debated recommendations made by the Communities and Culture Committee inquiry into the accessibility of the arts and cultural activities in Wales. The Minister has confirmed in a written answer that he will update the successor committee on developments in implementing those recommendations before the end of the year. However, as those recommendations were debated by the whole Chamber, could we have a debate on that update once it has been presented to the successor committee, so as to ensure that the arts stay on the radar in the Chamber?

Suzy Davies: Ar ddiwedd y Cynulliad diwethaf, cafwyd dadl yn y Siambr ar argymhellion a wnaed gan ymchwiliad y Pwyllgor Cymunedau a Diwylliant i hygyrchedd gweithgareddau celfyddydol a diwylliannol yng Nghymru. Cadarnhaodd y Gweinidog mewn ateb ysgrifenedig y bydd yn diweddaru’r pwyllgor sy’n ei olynu ar ddatblygiadau o ran gweithredu’r argymhellion hynny cyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Fodd bynnag, gan fod yr holl Siambr wedi cynnal dadl ar yr argymhellion hynny, allwn ni gael dadl ar y diweddariad hwnnw unwaith y caiff ei gyflwyno i’r pwyllgor sy’n ei olynu, er mwyn sicrhau bod y celfyddydau yn parhau i gael sylw yn y Siambr?

Jane Hutt: That is an important point in terms of the recommendations of former committees that were adopted by Ministers in the former Government. Clearly, those have been carefully considered by the new Ministers in this Government, and I anticipate that the Minister will be addressing the recommendations from that debate.

Jane Hutt: Mae hwnnw’n bwynt pwysig o ran argymhellion y pwyllgorau blaenorol a fabwysiadwyd gan Weinidogion yn y Llywodraeth flaenorol. Yn amlwg, mae’r rheini wedi cael eu hystyried yn ofalus gan y Gweinidog newydd yn y Llywodraeth hon, ac rwy’n rhagweld y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymdrin â’r argymhellion o’r ddadl honno.

Darren Millar: I call for two statements. The first is from the Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage on the provision of libraries across Wales. The Minister may be aware that library services in Conwy are under review, and there is concern that libraries in Cerrigydrudion and Kinmel Bay, in particular, which serve some very deprived communities that need access to books and IT facilities provided by those services, could be lost. The second is a statement from the Minister for Education and Skills on the future of the consultation process that might apply to school closures, when they are proposed. One of the big issues raised with me, as a local Member with schools in my constituency being reviewed at present, is the shortcoming in the consultation process when it comes to listening to the voices of children who may be affected by a school closure. I wonder whether the Children’s Commissioner for Wales has a role to play in this. It would be useful if the Minister could bring forward a statement.

Darren Millar: Galwaf am ddau ddatganiad. Mae’r cyntaf gan y Gweinidog Tai, Adfywio a Threftadaeth ar ddarpariaeth llyfrgelloedd ledled Cymru. Efallai bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod bod gwasanaethau llyfrgell yn cael eu hadolygu yng Nghonwy, ac mae pryder y bydd colli llyfrgelloedd yng Ngherrigydrudion a Bae Cinmel, yn benodol, sy’n gwasanaethu rhai cymunedau difreintiedig iawn sydd angen cael gafael ar y llyfrau a’r gwasanaethau TG a ddarperir  gan y gwasanaethau hynny. Yr ail yw datganiad gan y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau ar ddyfodol y broses ymgynghori y gellid ei chymhwyso i gau ysgolion, pan gânt eu cynnig. Un o’r materion mawr a godwyd gyda mi, fel Aelod lleol sydd ag ysgolion yn fy etholaeth sy’n cael eu hadolygu ar y funud, yw’r diffyg yn y broses ymgynghori pan ddaw i wrando ar leisiau plant y gellid effeithio arnynt oherwydd cau ysgol. Tybed a oes gan Gomisiynydd Plant Cymru rôl i’w chwarae yn hyn. Byddai’n ddefnyddiol pe bai’r Gweinidog yn dod â datganiad ger bron.   

Jane Hutt: Your point about libraries is a matter for Conwy County Borough Council. It is an issue of local priorities; clearly, we provided a good settlement for local government and I hope that that will be reflected in decisions taken at a local level. It is important to remind the Member, with regard to decisions on school closures, that time is provided to ensure that not only does the consultation fully engage with young people—which is key in terms of our participation agenda—but that it is taken on board in all guidance and regulations.

Jane Hutt: Mae’ch pwynt am lyfrgelloedd yn fater i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy. Mae’n fater o flaenoriaethau lleol; yn amlwg, gwnaethom ddarparu setliad da i lywodraeth leol a gobeithiaf y caiff hynny ei adlewyrchu mewn penderfyniadau a wneir yn lleol. Mae’n bwysig atgoffa’r Aelod, o ran penderfyniadau i gau ysgolion, fod amser yn cael ei roi i sicrhau nid yn unig bod yr ymgynghoriad yn ymgysylltu’n llawn â phobl ifanc—sy’n allweddol o ran ein hagenda cymryd rhan—ond ei fod hefyd yn cael ei ystyried ym mhob canllawiau a rheoliadau.

Datganiad: Y Rhaglen Lywodraethu
Statement: The Programme for Government

The First Minister: The beginning of the fourth term of the National Assembly, an Assembly with new legislative powers, is the right time to show that devolution has reached a level of maturity that can deliver better for the people of Wales. In July, I set out an ambitious legislative programme for the term of this Assembly, showing how we will use these powers to create the conditions for better education, social care, housing, environment and more efficient and effective local government. Today, I am setting out our programme for government, which shows how we will focus the whole range of Government activity on the positive change we all want to see. Next week, the Minister for Finance and Leader of the House will set out the Government’s spending plans to March 2015. These will show how we will use our funding to deliver this change. Together, these documents comprise a very clear statement of how the Welsh Government will deliver.

Y Prif Weinidog: Cychwyn pedwerydd tymor y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, Cynulliad sydd â phwerau deddfwriaethol newydd, yw’r adeg gywir i ddangos bod datganoli wedi cyrraedd aeddfedrwydd sy’n gallu darparu’n well i bobl Cymru. Ym mis Gorffennaf, amlinellais raglen ddeddfwriaethol uchelgeisiol ar gyfer y Cynulliad y tymor hwn, yn dangos sut y byddem yn defnyddio’r pwerau hyn i greu’r amodau ar gyfer gwell addysg, gofal cymdeithasol, tai, amgylchedd a llywodraeth leol fwy effeithlon ac effeithiol. Heddiw, rwy’n amlinellu ein rhaglen lywodraethu, sy’n dangos sut y byddwn yn canolbwyntio holl weithgarwch y Llywodraeth ar y newid cadarnhaol rydym i gyd am ei weld. Wythnos nesaf, bydd y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ yn amlinellu cynlluniau gwario’r Llywodraeth hyd at fis Mawrth 2015. Bydd y rhain yn dangos sut y byddwn yn defnyddio ein cyllid i wireddu’r newid hwnnw. Gyda’i gilydd, mae’r dogfennau hyn yn arwydd clir iawn o sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflawni.

Our manifesto set out the difference that we want to make to the lives of the people of Wales: we want healthy people living productive lives in a more prosperous and innovative economy; safer and more cohesive communities, with lower levels of poverty and greater equality; a resilient environment with more sustainable use of our natural resources; and a society with a vital sense of its own culture and heritage. It set out the actions that we would take to achieve this, including our five commitments for a fairer future. These highlight the priority that we give to improving the lives of children and families, educational standards and access to healthcare, providing new opportunities for our younger generation, and fresh hope for our communities. This contrasts clearly with the cuts of the Tory-led coalition. Instead, it demonstrates our commitment to fairness and social justice. This is the thread that runs through all of our work, and is a key part of our Welsh account of sustainable development, which is our central organising principle.

Gwnaeth ein maniffesto amlinellu’r gwahaniaeth rydym am ei wneud i fywydau pobl Cymru; rydym am i bobl fyw yn gynhyrchiol mewn economi fwy ffyniannus a dyfeisgar; cymunedau diogel a chydlynus gyda llai o dlodi a mwy o gydraddoldeb; amgylchedd cryf gyda defnydd mwy cynaliadwy o’n hadnoddau naturiol; a chymdeithas gydag ymdeimlad cryf o’i diwylliant a threftadaeth ei hun. Amlinellodd y camau y byddem yn eu cymryd i wireddu hyn, yn cynnwys ein pum ymrwymiad ar gyfer dyfodol tecach. Mae’r rhain yn tanlinellu’r flaenoriaeth a roddwn i fywydau plant a theuluoedd, safonau addysgiadol a mynediad i ofal iechyd, darparu cyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer ein cenhedlaeth iau, a gobaith o’r newydd i’n cymunedau. Mae hynny’n cyferbynnu’n amlwg â thoriadau'r glymblaid a arweinir gan y Torïaid. Yn hytrach, dengys ein hymrwymiad i degwch a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Dyna yw’r llinyn sy’n rhedeg drwy’n holl waith, ac mae’n rhan allweddol o’r ffordd rydym yn datblygu’n gynaliadwy yng Nghymru, sef ein prif egwyddor  drefniadol.

I was clear in asking for a mandate that this administration would be characterised by a focus on delivery. A mature Government must be able to demonstrate its effectiveness in the delivery of results that people can measure, and in terms of change that can be seen and understood. The programme for government is central to this. In our manifesto, we recognised the long-term challenges that we face as a nation and emphasised our commitment to addressing these. Our programme for government provides more detail, and, in each chapter, sets out the actions that we will take, how we will judge whether our actions are on track, and the indicators that we will use to assess progress against the big long-term challenges for improving life for people in Wales. That includes people having a better experience of healthcare, higher educational achievement, more skills and a robust economy that provides good-quality jobs, a reduction in poverty, and safer and more cohesive communities. These are the things that all parties in the Assembly, and all parts of the public, private and third sectors, want to see and need to work tirelessly to deliver.

Wrth ofyn am fandad, roeddwn yn glir y byddai ffocws ar gyflawni yn nodweddu’r  weinyddiaeth hon. Rhaid i Lywodraeth aeddfed allu dangos ei heffeithiolrwydd o ran cyflawni canlyniadau y gall pobl eu mesur, ac o ran newid y gellir ei weld a’i ddeall. Mae’r rhaglen lywodraethu yn greiddiol i hyn. Yn ein maniffesto, gwnaethom gydnabod yr heriau hirdymor a wynebwn fel cenedl a gwnaethom bwysleisio ein hymrwymiad i ymdrin â’r rhain. Mae ein rhaglen lywodraethu yn rhoi mwy o gig ar yr asgwrn, ac, ym mhob pennod, yn amlinellu y camau y byddwn yn eu cymryd, sut y byddwn yn barnu os yw ein camau ar y trywydd iawn, a’r dangosyddion y byddwn yn eu defnyddio i asesu’r cynnydd yn erbyn yr heriau hirdymor mawr i wella bywyd i bobl yng Nghymru. Mae hynny’n cynnwys pobl yn cael gwell profiad o ofal iechyd, cyrhaeddiad addysgiadol uwch, mwy o sgiliau ac economi gadarn sy’n darparu swyddi o safon, llai o dlodi, a chymunedau fwy diogel a chydlynus. Dyma’r pethau mae bob plaid yn y Cynulliad, a phob rhan o’r sector cyhoeddus, sector preifat a thrydydd sector, am eu gweld ac mae angen gweithio’n ddiflino i’w gwireddu.

In many cases, these are not entirely within our gift to deliver. The global recession gives a clear reminder of how economic factors can be driven by external events, and, of course, there are many areas where we are still seeking more influence from the UK Government. I am also clear that, even where we can make a difference on these issues, we will not be able to do it alone. The programme for government is not an agenda for the Welsh Government alone—it is an agenda for Wales. Today I am asking our partners to work with us towards these aims, including local government and the police, schools, local health boards, the private sector and the third sector. All of our partners will be crucial in making this difference for people and communities in Wales.

Mewn sawl achos, nid yw’r rhain yn llwyr o fewn ein gallu ni i’w cyflawni. Mae’r dirwasgiad byd-eang wedi ein hatgoffa’n glir sut y gall ffactorau economaidd gael eu sbarduno gan ddigwyddiadau allanol, ac, wrth gwrs, rydym yn dal i geisio mwy o ddylanwad gan Lywodraeth y DU mewn sawl maes. Rwyf hefyd yn gwybod, hyd yn oed lle gallwn wneud gwahaniaeth ar y materion hyn, na allwn wneud hynny ar ben ein hunain. Nid yw’r rhaglen lywodraethu yn agenda i Lywodraeth Cymru’n unig—mae’n agenda i Gymru. Heddiw rwy’n gofyn i’n partneriaid weithio gyda ni tuag at y nodau hyn, gan gynnwys llywodraeth leol a’r heddlu, ysgolion, byrddau iechyd lleol, y sector preifat a’r trydydd sector. Bydd bob un o’n partneriaid yn allweddol o ran creu’r gwahaniaeth hwn i bobl a chymunedau yng Nghymru.

We recognise that our agenda is challenging. However, the people of Wales expect to see a real improvement in their lives. As leader of the Welsh Government, I am clear that it is our role to set the agenda for delivery in Wales, and it is our collective responsibility, with our delivery partners, to work towards that. We will commit all our policies, programmes, legislation and funding to deliver these improvements. You will see that the programme for government is based on issues, not Welsh Government departmental structures. This emphasises that we will be putting people and their experiences at the centre of how we are organising our work. Through the course of this term, Ministers will be joining up our programmes more effectively to deliver real and demonstrable improvements for Wales. Many of the actions that we take now will have their clearest impact over the longer-term: for example, our commitment to improving skills now will take time to improve people’s economic circumstances, particularly to pull people out of poverty. Similarly, our commitment to improving the lives of children and families will bear the most fruit in the longer-term in promoting social wellbeing.

Rydym yn sylweddoli bod ein hagenda’n heriol. Fodd bynnag, mae pobl Cymru yn disgwyl gweld gwelliant sylweddol yn eu bywydau. Fel arweinydd Llywodraeth Cymru, rwy’n glir mai ein rôl ni yw gosod yr agenda ar gyfer cyflawni yng Nghymru, ac ein cyfrifoldeb ni ar y cyd, gyda’n partneriaid cyflawni, yw gweithio tuag at hynny. Byddwn yn ymrwymo bob un o’n polisïau, rhaglenni, deddfwriaeth a chyllid i gyflawni’r gwelliannau hyn. Fe welwch fod y rhaglen lywodraethu yn seiliedig ar faterion, nid strwythurau adrannol Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae hyn yn pwysleisio y byddwn yn rhoi pobl a’u profiadau wrth wraidd y modd rydym yn trefnu ein gwaith. Yn ystod y tymor hwn, bydd Gweinidogion yn cydlynu ein rhaglenni yn fwy effeithiol i gyflawni gwelliannau go iawn i Gymru y gellir eu dangos. Bydd effaith llawer o’r camau rydym yn eu cymryd yn awr yn dod yn fwy amlwg dros y tymor hirach; er enghraifft, bydd ein hymrwymiad i wella sgiliau yn awr yn cymryd amser i wella amgylchiadau economaidd pobl, yn enwedig er mwyn tynnu pobl o dlodi. Yn yr un modd, bydd ein hymrwymiad i wella bywydau plant a theuluoedd yn dwyn y ffrwyth mwyaf yn y tymor hirach o ran hybu lles cymdeithasol.

I will report on progress on an annual basis. My reports will look at what the Welsh Government has done to improve people’s lives. I will also set out progress on the broader agenda for Wales, and give a more complete picture of the wellbeing of people and communities. The programme for government represents a fresh approach. It is the road map that my Ministers and I will use to steer the Government machine in the right direction.

Byddaf yn adrodd ar y cynnydd bob blwyddyn. Bydd fy adroddiadau yn edrych ar beth a wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru i wella bywydau pobl. Byddaf hefyd yn amlinellu’r cynnydd ar yr agenda ehangach i Gymru, a rhoi darlun mwy cyflawn o les pobl a chymunedau. Mae’r rhaglen lywodraethu yn cynrychioli ymagwedd o’r newydd. Dyma’r map ffordd y bydd fy Ngweinidogion a minnau yn ei ddefnyddio i lywio peiriant y Llywodraeth yn y cyfeiriad cywir.

2.45 p.m.

We will use it to test progress and to evaluate the contribution that policies and programmes make to achieving outcomes. By the same token, it is also a fresh approach to transparent government. It offers the public, and you as the representatives tasked with democratic scrutiny on their behalf, the opportunity to understand better our activity and the progress being made on the big long-term challenges for our country. I look forward to working with all Members over the term of this Assembly to deliver this programme for government, and I commend it to the Assembly.

Byddwn yn ei ddefnyddio i fesur cynnydd ac i werthuso’r cyfraniad y mae polisïau a rhaglenni yn eu gwneud i gyflawni canlyniadau. Yn yr un modd, mae hefyd yn ymagwedd o’r newydd tuag at lywodraeth dryloyw. Mae’n cynnig cyfle i’r cyhoedd, a chi fel cynrychiolwyr sydd â’r dasg o graffu’n ddemocrataidd ar eu rhan, i ddeall ein gweithgarwch yn well a’r cynnydd sy’n cael ei wneud ar yr heriau hirdymor mawr i’n gwlad. Rwy’n edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda phob Aelod dros dymor y Cynulliad hwn i gyflawni’r rhaglen lywodraethu, ac fe’i cymeradwyaf i’r Cynulliad.  

Andrew R.T. Davies: First Minister, thank you for your statement and for making the programme for government available to party leaders earlier today. I do not doubt that it is your right as the First Minister, and as leader of the largest party, to put forward a programme for government. It is also your right to have a reasonable period of time in which to implement the programme and the aspirations contained in it; no-one in the Chamber can doubt that. What is of concern are some aspects of the programme and the track record that many of the Ministers who sit around you have in different portfolios and in delivering on the previous Government’s policies and initiatives, which were supposed to enrich the people of Wales and develop in Wales an enterprise culture that people would feel positive about.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Brif Weinidog, diolch i chi am eich datganiad ac am ryddhau’r rhaglen lywodraethu i arweinwyr y pleidiau yn gynharach heddiw. Nid wyf yn amau fod gennych hawl fel y Prif Weinidog, ac fel arweinydd y blaid fwyaf, i roi rhaglen lywodraethu gerbron. Mae gennych hawl hefyd i gael cyfnod o amser rhesymol i weithredu’r rhaglen a’r dyheadau sydd ynddi; all neb yn y Siambr amau hynny. Yr hyn sydd o bryder yw rhai agweddau ar y rhaglen a’r hanes o gyflawni sydd gan lawer o’r Gweinidogion sy’n eistedd o’ch cwmpas mewn portffolios gwahanol ac o ran cyflawni polisïau a mentrau'r Llywodraeth flaenorol, a oedd i fod i gyfoethogi pobl Cymru ac i ddatblygu diwylliant menter yng Nghymru y byddai pobl yn teimlo’n gadarnhaol amdano.  

To touch on a couple of things in your statement, you talked about partnership, which must be a cornerstone of any programme for government—that is not necessarily partnership in the Chamber, but beyond it, and you touched on the importance of working with local government and, indeed, the third sector. From evidence that I have heard on scrutiny committees, the Welsh Government has not, historically, had a good reputation in its dealings with the third sector. A specific example is the evidence that the Red Cross gave on wheelchair services, which was that it was often taken out of the equation and seen as a competitor to the Welsh Government. If there has been a change of mind in the Welsh Government so that it will work positively with the third sector, that is to be welcomed, and it is undoubtedly something that you should be embracing.

I gyffwrdd ar ambell i beth yn eich datganiad, gwnaethoch sôn am bartneriaeth, ac mae’n rhaid bod hynny’n gonglfaen i unrhyw raglen lywodraethu—nid partneriaeth yn y Siambr o anghenraid, ond tu hwnt iddo, a gwnaethoch gyffwrdd ar bwysigrwydd cydweithio â llywodraeth leol, ac, yn wir, y trydydd sector. Ar sail y dystiolaeth a glywais ar bwyllgorau craffu, nid oes enw da, yn hanesyddol, wedi bod gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ran ei ymwneud â’r trydydd sector. Enghraifft benodol yw’r dystiolaeth a roddodd y Groes Goch ar wasanaethau cadair olwyn, sef ei fod yn aml yn cael ei ddiystyru ac yn cael ei weld fel cystadleuydd i Lywodraeth Cymru. Os bu newid meddwl yn Llywodraeth Cymru fel ei fod yn gweithio’n gadarnhaol gyda’r trydydd sector, mae hynny i’w groesawu, ac yn ddi-os yn rhywbeth y dylech fod yn ei wneud. 

The importance of developing skills for the Welsh economy is another fundamental plank, and a nut that successive Welsh Governments have not managed to crack, in terms of building a positive skills base so that people can then upskill and meet the needs of modern employers in Wales.

Mae pwysigrwydd datblygu sgiliau ar gyfer economi Cymru yn elfen allweddol arall, ac yn broblem na lwyddodd Llywodraethau Cymru yn olynol i’w datrys, o ran datblygu sylfaen sgiliau gadarnhaol fel y gall pobl wedyn wella eu sgiliau i gwrdd ag anghenion cyflogwyr cyfoes yng Nghymru.

You also touched on many issues relating to the health service in your programme for government. However, it is alarming to hear today from the British Medical Association that very little discussion or work has been undertaken on two of the key planks of the programme. These are the introduction of 50-plus health checks and extending the opening hours of general practitioners’ surgeries. From questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services on this matter, it appears that costings do not seem to have been attributed to these key policies. However, from reading your programme for government, they form the cornerstone of creating better access to the health service. We support that aim, but are concerned about your ability to make these policies work in practice. You also touched on stroke services in Wales, as well as on cancer and cardiac services; these have been proven to be wanting. We have championed the cancer drugs fund, which we believe would be a positive development for cancer patients in Wales. I do not know whether you will refer to it in your response, but I hope that your Government will consider introducing such a fund, given the benefits seen on the other side of Offa’s Dyke.

Gwnaethoch hefyd gyffwrdd ar sawl mater yn ymwneud â’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn eich rhaglen lywodraethu. Fodd bynnag, mae’n fraw clywed heddiw gan Gymdeithas Feddygol Prydain na chafwyd fawr ddim trafodaeth na gwaith ar ddwy brif elfen y rhaglen. Y rhain yw cyflwyno asesiadau iechyd i bobl dros 50 ac ymestyn oriau agor meddygfeydd meddygon teulu. Ar sail cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar y mater yma, ymddengys nad yw costau wedi cael eu priodoli i’r polisïau allweddol hyn. Fodd bynnag, o ddarllen eich rhaglen lywodraethu, maent yn ffurfio sail i greu mynediad gwell i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Rydym yn cefnogi’r amcan hwnnw, ond rydym yn bryderus am eich gallu i weithredu’r polisïau hyn yn ymarferol. Gwnaethoch hefyd gyffwrdd ar wasanaethau strôc yng Nghymru, yn ogystal â gwasanaethau canser a chalon; dangoswyd fod diffygion yn y rhain. Rydym wedi hyrwyddo’r gronfa cyffuriau canser, yr ydym yn credu y byddai’n ddatblygiad cadarnhaol i gleifion canser yng Nghymru. Wn i ddim os byddwch yn cyfeirio ato yn eich ateb, ond gobeithio y bydd eich Llywodraeth yn ystyried cyflwyno cronfa o’r fath, o gofio am y manteision a welwyd yr ochr arall i Glawdd Offa.

You also talked about waiting times, particularly the move away from using 36 weeks to using 26 weeks as the key indicator with regard to waiting times. I would be grateful for some explanation as to why that is the case. I can understand why, with a 20,000 per cent increase in waits of over 36 weeks, you would want to move away from that indicator—there is also a 52,000 per cent increase in waiting times for orthopaedic treatment.

Rydych hefyd wedi sôn am amseroedd aros, yn enwedig y symud oddi wrth ddefnyddio 36 wythnos i ddefnyddio 26 wythnos o ran amseroedd aros. Byddaf yn cael rhywfaint o eglurhad o ran pam mai dyna’r achos. Gallaf ddeall pam, gyda chynnydd 20,000 y cant mewn amseroedd aros dros 36 wythnos, y byddech am symud oddi wrth y dangosydd hwnnw—mae cynnydd o 52,000 y cant hefyd o ran amseroedd aros ar gyfer triniaeth orthopedig.

Education is a critical plank and you have identified it as part of your programme for government and have noted the important role that it will play in developing the inclusiveness of Welsh society. However, it is important that, when you talk about delegating funding, you highlight the exact time frame within which you are working. The aspiration in the document is to move to 85 per cent of money being directed straight to schools. We know that some local authorities are currently taking as much as 33 per cent of the funding that is sent to them by the Welsh Government. Therefore, could you identify the time frame to which you are working in looking to increase the delegated funding proportion of the budget?

Mae addysg yn elfen allweddol ac rydych wedi ei nodi fel rhan o’ch rhaglen lywodraethu ac wedi nodi’r rôl bwysig y bydd yn chwarae o ran datblygu cymdeithas Gymreig gynhwysol. Fodd bynnag, mae’n bwysig, wrth ichi sôn am ddyrannu arian, eich bod yn nodi’r union amserlen yr ydych yn gweithio iddi. Y dyhead yn y ddogfen yw symud at gyfeirio 85 y cant o arian yn syth i ysgolion. Gwyddom fod rhai awdurdodau lleol ar hyn o bryd yn cymryd gymaint â 33 y cant o’r arian a gaiff ei anfon atynt gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Felly, allwch chi nodi’r amserlen yr ydych yn gweithio iddi er mwyn cynyddu cyfran yr arian a ddyrannir o’ch cyllideb?

On higher education, you refer in the document to safety mechanisms to ensure that learners never lose out as a result of mergers. It would be good to hear from you what you think that those safety measures should be. We understand the tensions in the higher education sector, and, indeed, the Minister for Education and Skills has talked at length about mergers in higher education and has made statements on that. In relation to teacher training, you talk about introducing a Masters-level qualification. Bearing in mind the cross-border aspects to training and employment, how will that impact on the cross-border flow of teachers and teaching professionals in the Welsh education system? It seemed to be a specifically Welsh provision in your programme for government.

O ran addysg uwch, rydych yn cyfeirio yn y ddogfen at fesurau diogelu i sicrhau nad yw dysgwyr yn waeth eu byd o ganlyniad i  sefydliadau’n uno. Byddai’n dda clywed gennych beth y dylai’r mesurau diogelu hynny eu cynnwys. Rydym yn deall y tensiynau yn y sector addysg uwch, ac yn wir, mae’r Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau wedi ymhelaethu am uno mewn addysg uwch ac wedi gwneud datganiadau ar hynny. O ran hyfforddi athrawon, rydych yn sôn am gyflwyno cymhwyster ar lefel gradd Meistr. O ystyried yr agwedd drawsffiniol sydd i hyfforddiant a chyflogaeth, sut y bydd hynny yn effeithio ar lif trawsffiniol athrawon a gweithwyr addysg proffesiynol i system addysg Cymru? Ymddengys fel pe bai’n ddarpariaeth Gymreig benodol yn eich rhaglen lywodraethu. 

On the economy, you talked about having indicators so that the performance of the Welsh Government is better understood. However, you did not say what those indicators would be and did not specify what you deem to be success in the field of business and enterprise, in particular tourism, in improving inclusiveness with regard to those not in education, employment or training, and with regard to the economy. Highlighted in the programme is that there will be a review of the entrepreneurial support that the Government is able to offer, but the economic renewal programme was launched only 12 months ago. Therefore, what exactly are you talking about in referring to another review into the level of support that you will offer? You talk about the relationship with the business community, and the council for economic renewal has identified that, sadly, that relationship is strained. When you talk about developing a new relationship with the business community, what type of relationship are you looking to develop?

O ran yr economi, gwnaethoch sôn am gael dangosyddion fel bod dealltwriaeth well o berfformiad Llywodraeth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, ni wnaethoch ddweud beth fyddai’r dangosyddion hynny na beth y byddech yn tybio byddai llwyddiant ym maes busnes a menter, yn enwedig twristiaeth, o ran gwella cynhwysiant mewn perthynas â’r rhai nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant, ac mewn perthynas â’r economi. Amlygir yn y rhaglen y bydd adolygiad o’r cymorth entrepreneuraidd y gall y Llywodraeth ei gynnig, ond dim ond 12 mis yn ôl y cafodd rhaglen adfywio’r economi ei lansio. Felly am beth yn union ydych chi’n sôn wrth gyfeirio at adolygiad arall i’r lefel o gymorth y gallwch ei gynnig? Rydych yn sôn am y berthynas gyda’r gymuned fusnes, ac mae’r cyngor ar gyfer adfywio’r economi wedi nodi fod y berthynas honno dan straen, yn anffodus. Pan rydych yn sôn am ddatblygu perthynas newydd gyda’r gymuned fusnes, pa fath o berthynas ydych chi eisiau ei datblygu?

The programme will, quite rightly, be discussed, debated and scrutinised in the Chamber and by committees, and I welcome that opportunity. I look forward to hearing your answers to my questions today, First Minister.

Bydd trafod a chraffu ar y rhaglen, sy’n hollol iawn, yn y Siambr ac mewn pwyllgorau, ac rwy’n croesawu’r cyfle hwnnw. Rwy’n edrych ymlaen ar glywed eich atebion i fy nghwestiynau heddiw, Brif Weinidog. 

The First Minister: With regard to the British Medical Association, you must remember that 10 per cent of all GP surgeries are already opening in the evenings. If they can do it, there is no reason why the rest cannot. It is also important to remember that people voted for GP surgeries to be open in the evening and for there to be availability on a Saturday morning. I hear about that all the time from my constituents, and I am sure that other Members do as well. It is important that people are able to access medical services at a time that is more convenient for them, rather than them being hamstrung by the limited opening hours of some GPs surgeries. There are other surgeries that are far more progressive in the services they offer to their patients. We are confident that the changes can be achieved within existing budgets. We are not asking doctors to work longer hours or to work more, but simply to reorganise the way that they work in order to provide a better service to their patients, which I know that they want to do.

Y Prif Weinidog: O ran Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain, rhaid ichi gofio bod 10 y cant o feddygfeydd teulu yn agor gyda’r nos yn barod. Os ydyn nhw’n gallu gwneud hynny, nid oes rheswm pad yw’r gweddill yn gallu. Mae hefyd yn bwysig cofio fod pobl wedi pleidleisio i feddygfeydd teulu agor gyda’r nos ac i fod ar gael ar foreau Sadwrn. Rwy’n clywed am hynny drwy’r adeg gan fy etholwyr, fel rwy’n siŵr bod Aelodau eraill hefyd. Mae’n bwysig fod pobl yn gallu cael gafael ar wasanaethau meddygol ar adeg sy’n fwy cyfleus iddyn nhw, yn hytrach na chael eu llesteirio gan yr oriau agor cyfyngedig sydd gan rai meddygfeydd teulu. Mae meddygfeydd teulu eraill yn llawer mwy blaengar o ran y gwasanaethau maent yn eu cynnig i gleifion. Rydym yn hyderus y gellir cyflawni’r newidiadau o fewn y cyllidebau sydd gennym yn barod. Nid ydym yn gofyn i feddygon weithio oriau hirach nag i weithio mwy, ond yn hytrach aildrefnu’r ffordd maent yn gweithio er mwyn rhoi gwasanaeth gwell i’w cleifion, a gwn eu bod eisiau gwneud hynny.

With regard to the cancer drugs fund, all that the cancer drugs fund has done in England is to bring spending on cancer drugs in England somewhat closer to the level of spending in Wales. Even with the cancer drugs fund, spending per head in England is £5 lower than it is in Wales. Therefore, why introduce a cancer drugs fund in Wales in order to resolve what is, in fact, a problem in England? It is important that Members are not captured by lobbying from organisations that are funded by companies that wish to promote their products, even though they might not be as effective as they claim. That is absolutely essential. Bear in mind that, although pharmaceutical companies cannot advertise prescription drugs in this country, there are other ways of promoting them.

O ran y gronfa cyffuriau canser, y cyfan a wnaeth y gronfa cyffuriau canser yn Lloegr yw dod â gwariant ar gyffuriau canser yn Lloegr rywfaint yn agosach i’r gwariant yng Nghymru. Hyd yn oed gyda’r gronfa cyffuriau canser, mae gwariant y pen £5 yn is nag yw yng Nghymru. Felly, pam cyflwyno cronfa cyffuriau canser yng Nghymru er mwyn datrys rhywbeth sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn broblem yn Lloegr? Mae’n bwysig nad yw Aelodau yn cael eu cornelu oherwydd lobio gan sefydliadau a gaiff eu hariannu gan gwmnïau sy’n dymuno hybu eu cynnyrch, er nad ydynt efallai mor effeithiol ag y maent yn ei honni. Er nad yw cwmnïau fferyllol yn gallu hysbysebu cyffuriau presgripsiwn yn y wlad hon, cofiwch fod yna ffyrdd eraill o’u hybu.  

When it comes to local authorities, I agree with you that more money needs to go to schools, and to the front line. However, to suggest that local authorities are simply bureaucracies is quite wrong; they provide services that can only be provided centrally. With regard to school transport, for example, can we seriously say that all schools should provide their own school transport contracts? The costs would be astronomical. It would be an incredible burden to place on schools, when they need to be concentrating on education. However, we do have targets and an agreement with the local authorities to ensure that more money gets to the front line of school spending.

Pan ddaw i awdurdodau lleol, rwy’n cytuno gyda chi bod angen i fwy o arian fynd i ysgolion, ac i’r rheng flaen. Fodd bynnag, mae’n dra anghywir awgrymu mai dim ond biwrocratiaethau yw awdurdodau lleol; maent yn darparu gwasanaethau sydd ond yn gallu cael eu darparu’n ganolog. O ran cludiant ysgol, er enghraifft, a allwn ni ddweud o ddifrif y dylai bob ysgol ddarparu contractau cludiant ysgol eu hunain? Byddai’r costau yn anferthol. Byddai’n faich aruthrol i’w roi ar ysgolion, pan fod angen iddynt ganolbwyntio ar addysg. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym dargedau a chytundeb gyda’r awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod mwy o arian yn cyrraedd y rheng flaen o ran gwariant gan ysgolion.

With regard to higher education, the reason why mergers are being discussed is to ensure that our higher education institutions will survive, prosper, and become competitive on a European and world level. That is why it is important that that happens. On the safety measures, they will ensure that, as mergers take place, and as there is that reorganisation in administration, learners are not affected and are still able to study the courses that they wish to study without experiencing disruption. When it comes to teacher training, we want our teachers to be better qualified. If teachers from Wales are better qualified than teachers elsewhere, that can only be good for them as they seek jobs both within and outside Wales.

O ran addysg uwch, y rheswm pam fod uno yn cael ei drafod yw er mwyn sicrhau bod sefydliadau addysg uwch yn goroesi, ffynnu ac yn dod yn gystadleuol ar lefel Ewropeaidd a byd-eang. Dyna pam ei bod yn bwysig fod hynny’n digwydd. O ran y mesurau diogelwch, byddant yn sicrhau, wrth i uno ddigwydd, a chan fod yr ad-drefnu hwnnw o ran gweinyddiaeth, nad yw dysgwyr yn cael eu heffeithio ac y byddant yn dal i astudio’r cyrsiau maent yn dymuno eu hastudio heb fod tarfu arnynt. Pan ddaw i hyfforddi athrawon, rydym am i’n hathrawon gael gwell cymwysterau. Os oes gan athrawon yng Nghymru well cymwysterau nag athrawon mewn lleoedd eraill, ni all hynny ond fod yn beth da iddynt wrth iddynt chwilio am swyddi yng Nghymru a thu hwnt.

With regard to business and enterprise, we want to see gross disposable household income per head increase and we want to see primary income per capita increased. We would also like to see gross domestic product per head increase, although that is a less accurate measure of the way in which the economy is developing in Wales. In terms of business support, I have not heard any businesses suggest that there is a strained relationship between Government and business. I would not necessarily expect them to say it to me in person, but you usually pick these things up in the media, and I have not seen it reported there either. The relationship that we have with business is excellent. We have the council for economic renewal, which is well attended and valued by the business community. It is important that—as has been suggested to me earlier in the Chamber today and last week—as the challenges change in the world economy, we keep our business offer under constant review. That is why it makes sense to conduct reviews from time to time to ensure that the level of support available to businesses in Wales is appropriate, given that we live in a fast-changing global economy.

O ran busnes a menter, rydym eisiau gweld cynnydd yn yr incwm gros gwariant yr aelwydydd y pen ac rydym eisiau gweld prif incwm fesul pen yn cynyddu. Hoffem weld cynnyrch domestig gros yn cynyddu, er bod hynny’n fesur llai cywir o’r ffordd y mae’r economi yn datblygu yng Nghymru. O ran cymorth i fusnes, ni chlywais unrhyw fusnes yn awgrymu fod y berthynas rhwng y Llywodraeth a busnes dan straen. Ni fyddwn o anghenraid yn disgwyl iddynt ddweud hynny wrthyf yn bersonol, ond rydych fel arfer yn gweld y pethau hyn yn y cyfryngau, ac nid wyf wedi ei weld yno chwaith. Mae gennym berthynas ragorol gyda busnes. Mae gennym y cyngor ar gyfer adfywio’r economi, sydd â phresenoldeb da ac sy’n cael ei werthfawrogi gan y gymuned fusnes. Mae’n bwysig—fel yr awgrymwyd wrthyf i yn gynharach heddiw yn y Siambr a’r wythnos diwethaf—wrth i’r heriau newid yn yr economi fyd-eang, ein bod yn dal ati i adolygu’r hyn rydym yn ei gynnig i fusnes. Dyna pam ei bod yn gwneud synnwyr i gynnal adolygiad o bryd i’w gilydd i sicrhau bod y cymorth sydd ar gael i fusnesau yng Nghymru yn briodol, o ystyried ein bod yn byw mewn economi fyd-eang sy’n newid yn gyflym. 

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Yr wyf innau hefyd yn diolch i chi am y dogfennau. Mae pedwar mis wedi mynd heibio ers yr etholiad a dyma ni o’r diwedd yn cael awgrym o raglen y Llywodraeth—gwell hwyr na hwyrach. Yr ydym wedi cael sawl datganiad gan y Prif Weinidog cyn hyn am nifer o faterion, ond dyma’r tro cyntaf i ni gael syniad o’r hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ceisio ei wneud o safbwynt polisi a sut y bydd yn trosglwyddo’r hyn a oedd yn eu maniffesto yn rhaglen lywodraethu. Fodd bynnag, o’r hyn yr wyf wedi ei ddarllen hyd yn hyn, nid ydym fawr callach o ran yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth am ei gyflawni o ran polisi. Mae’r ddogfen yn hynod o gyffredinol ac, ar y darlleniad cyntaf, nid wyf yn gweld bod llawer o dargedau wedi cael eu gosod o ran yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ceisio ei gyflawni. Rhoddaf enghraifft o’r hyn yr wyf yn sôn amdano.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: I, too, thank you for the documents. Four months have passed since the election, and here we at last have a suggestion of the Government’s programme—better late than never. We have had a number of statements from the First Minister before now on a number of issues, but this is the first time that we have been given an idea of what the Government is attempting with regard to policy and of how it will translate what was in their manifesto into a programme of government. However, from what I have read so far, we are barely any wiser as to what the Government wants to achieve in terms of policy. The document is remarkably general and, on first reading, I cannot see that many targets have been set for what the Government is seeking to achieve. I will give an example of what I mean.

I will read it in English, as I have the English copy in front of me. Under ‘Improving quality’, it states:

Fe’i darllenaf yn Saesneg, gan fod gennyf y copi Saesneg o fy mlaen. O dan ‘Gwella ansawdd’ mae’n dweud:

‘% of new affordable homes funded through Social Housing Grant.’

‘% y cartrefi fforddiadwy newydd a ariennir drwy’r Grant Tai Cymdeithasol’.

There is no figure attached to the percentage. So, how many affordable homes are going to be funded through the social housing grant? I think that we should know that.

Nid oes ffigur wedi ei atodi i’r canran. Felly, faint o gartrefi fforddiadwy sy’n mynd i gael eu hariannu drwy’r grant tai cymdeithasol? Rwy’n credu y dylem wybod hynny.

Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi dweud sawl tro ei fod am weld y Llywodraeth hon yn cyflawni ei haddewidion. Felly, sut mae’n mynd ati i gyflawni ei haddewidion? Er bod gennym syniad o’r hyn y mae’n ceisio ei gyflawni, ni allwn fesur hyn drwy edrych ar dargedau a osodwyd ganddi. Yr unig beth yr ydym wedi’i gael yn ystod y pedwar mis diwethaf yw’r Llywodraeth yn rheoli pethau ac yn ymosod ar y glymblaid yn Llundain. Gallwn ni ymosod ar y glymblaid yn Llundain gystal â nhw, ond mae’n rhaid i ni gael gwybod i ba gyfeiriad y mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn ceisio mynd. Byddwn wedi dymuno cael dadl lawn ar raglen y Llywodraeth ochr yn ochr â’r rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol yn y mis cyntaf.

The First Minister has said on several occasions that he wants to see this Government delivering on its pledges. So, how is it going about that? Although we have an idea of what it is trying to do, we cannot measure it by looking at the targets that it has set. All we have had in the past four months is the Government managing things and attacking the coalition in London. We can attack the coalition in London as well as they can, but we need to know in which direction this Government is seeking to travel. I would have liked to have had a full debate on the Government’s programme alongside the legislative programme in the first month.

The first four months of this Government’s life have been characterised by drift and complacency. By and large, that silence has been characterised by the Government’s inaction and there has not been much sign of life in Government circles. [Interruption.] I am sorry that the Minister for education is a little bit concerned about that. I confess that he has had one or two things to say, but he has been on his own. [Interruption.] That was a back-handed compliment, Minister, by the way, which I think you should take with good grace.

Mae pedwar mis cyntaf y Llywodraeth hon wedi cael eu nodweddu gan lusgo traed a hunan-fodlonrwydd. Ar y cyfan, nodweddwyd y tawelwch hwnnw gan ddiffyg gweithredu gan y Llywodraeth ac ni fu llawer o arwydd bod bywyd yng nghylchoedd y Llywodraeth. [Torri ar draws.]  Mae’n ddrwg gen i fod y Gweinidog addysg braidd yn bryderus am hynny. Rwy’n cyfaddef fod ganddo ambell beth i’w ddweud, ond bu ar ben ei hun. [Torri ar draws.] Dyna ganmoliaeth ddeublyg, Weinidog, ac rwy’n credu y dylech ei derbyn yn raslon.  

Symudaf ymlaen i drafod o leiaf pedwar maes o ran yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ceisio ei gyflawni. Yn ei maniffesto, dywedodd y Blaid Lafur y byddai’n creu cronfa waith i Gymru, er mwyn cael pobl ifanc i’r farchnad lafur. Dywedodd y byddai 4,000 o swyddi yn cael eu creu bob blwyddyn, ond nid oes ffigur yn y rhaglen hon. Pam nad oes ffigur yn y rhaglen?

Moving on to discuss at least four areas in which the Government is trying achieve. In its manifesto, the Labour Party said that it would create a fund for Wales to get young people into the labour market. It said that 4,000 jobs would be created each year, but there is no figure in this programme. Why is there no figure in the programme?

3.00 p.m.

O edrych wedyn ar atodiad i’r rhaglen lywodraethu, gwelir nad oes ffigur yno ychwaith. Pam yr ydych wedi gadael ffigur allan? A ydych wedi gostwng y ffigur hwnnw? Fel yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod, 4,000 y flwyddyn oedd y targed yn eich maniffesto, ond gwyddom fod 50,000 o bobl ifanc rhwng 16 a 24 yn ddi-waith. Felly, hyd yn oed petaech chi yn cyrraedd eich 4,000 y flwyddyn, byddai hynny’n gadael 92 y cant o bobl ifanc heb gymorth y Llywodraeth o gwbl.

If you then look at the annex to the programme for government, you will see that there is no figure there either. Why have you omitted that figure? Have you lowered it? As we all know, 4,000 a year was the target in your manifesto, but there are 50,000 young people between 16 and 24 out of work. So, even if you were to reach your target of 4,000 a year, that would leave 92 per cent of young people without any Government assistance at all.

Dywedasoch eich bod am ehangu oriau gweld meddyg teulu a gwneud pethau yn fwy cyfleus. Nid ydych yn dweud yn eich dogfen sut y byddwch yn cyflawni hynny. Y cyfan a ddywedwch yn y rhaglen yw eich bod yn gwerthuso’r rhaglen honno a’ch bod yn meddwl bod trafodaethau wedi dechrau gyda’r byrddau iechyd lleol. Sut ydym ni i wybod beth yw polisi’r Llywodraeth ar hynny? Nid ydym yn gwybod. Ni fedrwn ei fesur. Felly, pryd cawn ni fwy o wybodaeth am hynny?

You said that you wanted to lengthen GP opening hours to make things more convenient. You do not state in your document how you will achieve that. All you have said in the programme is that you are evaluating that programme and that you think that discussions have started with the local health boards. How are we to know what the Government’s policy is in that area? We do not know. We cannot measure it. So, when are we going to have more information on that?

Yr ydych hefyd yn dweud eich bod yn ychwanegu tri sector at chwe sector gwreiddiol ar gyfer yr economi. Brif Weinidog, pa sector yn awr nad yw’n rhan o flaenoriaethau’r Llywodraeth? Y gwir amdani yw eich bod bellach yn cynnwys pob sector, hyd y gwelaf i: sut y gall naw sector fod yn flaenoriaeth lwyr?

You also say that you are adding three sectors to the original six in terms of the economy. First Minister, which sector is now not among the Government’s priorities? The truth of it is that you are now including all sectors, as far as I can see: how can nine sectors take full priority?

Gyda’r parthau menter, nid ydych wedi dweud wrthym a oes arian ychwanegol yn mynd i’r system. Mae arnom angen gweld mwy o gig ar yr asgwrn.

With the enterprise zones, you have not told us whether any new money is going into the system. We need to see that fleshed out more.

Dywedasoch fod mwy o arian yn mynd i fyd addysg, sef 1 y cant yn fwy na chyfartaledd gweddill y gyllideb. Yr oeddem eisoes wedi gwneud hynny yng nghyllideb 2011, felly, y cwestiwn yw, a yw hynny’n golygu bod mwy o arian eto yn mynd i’r system addysg? Dylem gael gwybod hynny. Nid oes gair ychwaith am beth a wneir i helpu byd busnes gyda threthi busnes, ac nid oes dim, wrth gwrs, am raglen gyfalaf.

You said that more money was to be invested in education, namely 1 per cent above the average for the rest of the budget. We had already done that in the 2011 budget, so, the question is, does that mean that more money will be going into the education system? We should know. Nor is there any mention of what will be done to help businesses with business rate, and there is nothing, of course, on the capital programme.

Those are the observations I have on some of your proposals, but let me come back to those issues that I addressed to you in First Minister’s questions today. On the economy, we now know that we are facing a dangerous new phase. A new direction is needed and we desperately need to know from this Government if there is going to be a plan b. You criticised the Build for Wales programme yet again today. You did it during the course of the election. It is quite interesting that the precise plan that we put forward in the election has been taken up by the Treasury and will be introduced in Scotland. It seems clear to us that that plan should be looked at for Wales as well.

Dyna’r sylwadau sydd gennyf ar rai o’ch cynigion, ond gadewch i mi ddod yn ôl at y materion hynny y gofynnais ichi amdanynt yn ystod cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog heddiw. O ran yr economi, gwyddom ein bod yn wynebu cyfnod newydd anodd. Mae angen cyfeiriad newydd ac mae gwir angen i ni wybod gan y llywodraeth hon os bydd cynllun wrth gefn. Gwnaethoch feirniadu’r rhaglen Adeiladu dros Gymru unwaith eto heddiw. Fe wnaethoch hynny yn ystod yr etholiad. Mae’n eithaf diddorol y byddai’r union gynllun a roesom gerbron yn yr etholiad wedi ei fabwysiadu gan y Trysorlys ac yn cael ei gyflwyno yn yr Alban. Mae’n amlwg i ni y dylid edrych ar y cynllun ar gyfer Cymru hefyd.

On education, we must tackle illiteracy and innumeracy—the levels among 11-year-olds are currently a scandal. We need to maintain the network of NHS secondary provision across Wales and we need to know what changes are likely to happen in the provision of secondary care. We also need to have your infrastructure plan published so that we can fully understand what the private sector in Wales can achieve to assist us during the economic downturn. I think it would have been helpful if that infrastructure plan had been published alongside your plan for government.

O ran addysg, mae’n rhaid i ni daclo diffyg llythrennedd a rhifedd—mae’r lefelau ymysg plant 11 oed yn sgandal ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen i ni gynnal rhwydwaith o ddarpariaeth eilaidd GIG ledled Cymru ac mae angen i ni wybod pa newidiadau sy’n debyg o ddigwydd yn y ddarpariaeth gofal eilaidd. Rydym hefyd eisiau gweld eich cynllun seilwaith yn cael ei gyhoeddi fel ein bod yn gallu llawn ddeall beth y gall y sector preifat yng Nghymru ei gyflawni i’n helpu yn ystod y dirywiad economaidd. Credaf y byddai wedi bod o ddefnydd pe bai’r cynllun seilwaith hwnnw wedi cael ei gyhoeddi ochr yn ochr â’ch cynllun llywodraethu.

We have always said that we will provide a robust and constructive opposition. The fear I have, because there are so few targets here, and because the document is so general in its approach, is that we are going to find it very difficult to scrutinise the Government. We must therefore ask that you come forward with a much more transparent version in terms of your targets.

Rydym wastad wedi dweud y byddwn yn wrthblaid gadarn ac adeiladol. Y pryder sydd gennyf, am bod cyn lleied o dargedau yma, a chan fod y ddogfen mor gyffredinol yn ei hagwedd, yw y byddwn yn ei chael yn anodd i graffu ar y Llywodraeth. Mae’n rhaid i ni felly ofyn i chi gyflwyno fersiwn llawer fwy tryloyw o ran eich targedau.

I also wanted to mention briefly at the end, First Minister, the major challenges we face outside the programme. I am surprised that you have not mentioned, for example, the challenges we face over reforming the funding formula, borrowing powers and the way we need more capital spend to assist with infrastructure. We cannot get away with blaming all of our ills on London: standing up for Wales has to mean much more than that, and you must have a credible policy programme. Will you therefore revisit some of the ideas that you put forward in this document today? Give us proper targets and then we can challenge the programme effectively and robustly in this Chamber. 

Rwyf eisiau sôn yn fyr ar y diwedd, Brif Weinidog, am yr heriau mawr rydym yn eu hwynebu y tu allan i’r rhaglen. Rwy’n synnu nad ydych wedi sôn, er enghraifft, am yr heriau rydym yn eu hwynebu o ran diwygio’r fformiwla ariannu, pwerau benthyg a’r ffordd yr ydym angen mwy o wariant cyfalaf i helpu gyda seilwaith. Ni allwn feio ein problemau ar Lundain o hyd; mae’n rhaid i sefyll cornel Cymru olygu llawer mwy na hynny, ac mae’n rhaid i chi feddu ar raglen bolisi gredadwy. A wnewch chi felly ailedrych ar rai o’r syniadau y gwnaethoch eu rhoi gerbron yn y ddogfen hon heddiw? Rhowch dargedau go iawn i ni ac wedyn fel y gallwn herio’r rhaglen hon yn effeithiol a chadarn yn y Siambr hon.

Y Prif Weinidog: Diolchaf i arweinydd Plaid Cymru am ei sylwadau. Cafodd y Llywodraeth hon ei hethol ar faniffesto manwl; maniffesto a oedd yn cynnwys llawer o bethau newydd a llawer o fanylion. Yr oedd y maniffesto yn un a geisiodd apelio’n eang at bobl Cymru. Nid yw’r rhaglen hon yn wahanol iawn i’r rhaglen a fabwysiadwyd gan y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf. Felly, ni allaf weld rheswm dros feirniadu’r rhaglen hon, wrth gofio ei bod wedi’i seilio ar strwythur yr hyn a weithredwyd o’r blaen.

The First Minister: I thank the leader of Plaid Cymru for his comments. This Government was elected on a detailed manifesto; a manifesto that contained much that was new and a great deal of detail. The manifesto sought broad appeal among the people of Wales. The programme itself is not so different from that adopted by the previous Government, so I see no reason to criticise this programme, as it is based on a structure that has been implemented previously.

O ran tai, gwyddom fod angen adeiladu 7,000 yn fwy o dai yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn er mwyn diwallu’r galw. Yr ydym yn gweithio ar y mater hwn o fewn y sector, ac yr ydym hefyd yn cyfeirio at y mater hwn yn y cynllun 10 mlynedd i leihau digartrefedd.

On housing, we know that another 7,000 houses a year need to be built in Wales to satisfy demand. We are working on this issue with the sector, and we have referred to it in the 10-year plan to reduce homelessness.

O ran y gronfa swyddi, mae’r targed o 4,000 yn parhau i fodoli. Mae’r targed hwnnw’n un o addewidion y Llywodraeth, ac nid yw wedi newid o gwbl. Byddwn yn cael datganiad ar y mater hwnnw yn y dyfodol agos.

On the jobs fund, the target of 4,000 is still in place. That target was one of the Government’s pledges, and nothing has changed. We will have a statement on that in the near future.

O ran doctoriaid, mae’r mater hwn hefyd yn fater pwysig i bobl Cymru. Cynhaliwyd trafodaethau eisoes â grwpiau proffesiynol. Mae sawl doctor eisoes yn cynnig y gwasanaeth hwn i’r bobl leol y maent yn eu gwasanaethu.

On doctors, this, too, is an important matter for the people of Wales. Discussions have been held with professional groups. A number of doctors already offer this service to the people they serve locally.

Gan droi at y sectorau arbennig, mae’n rhyfedd clywed bod gormod ohonynt wedi’u pennu hyd yn hyn. Bu arweinydd Plaid Cymru’n sôn am bwysigrwydd y sector adeiladu yn ei gwestiynau. Yr oedd yn iawn iddo eu gofyn, wrth gwrs. Serch hynny, yr oedd yn od ei glywed yn beirniadu’r ffaith bod y sector hwnnw wedi’i enwi fel sector pwysig yn yr economi genedlaethol.

Turning to the special sectors, it is strange to hear that too many of them have been designated at present. The leader of Plaid Cymru mentioned the importance of the construction sector in his questions. He was right to ask them, of course. However, it was odd to hear him criticise the inclusion of that sector as being of importance to the national economy.

O ran y parthau menter, gwyddom fod tua £10 miliwn ar gael mewn arian ychwanegol, sef arian sy’n dod o’r Trysorlys i Gymru. Yr ydym am sicrhau bod yr arian hwnnw’n cael ei ddefnyddio mewn modd sydd o fudd i’r economi. Yr ydym yn parhau i aros am eglurder o ran lwfansau cyfalaf o’r Trysorlys, fel y soniais. O ran y targed i wario 1.5 y cant yn ychwanegol bob blwyddyn ar addysg, sef y fformiwla a amlinellwyd yn ein maniffesto i sicrhau bod y bwlch gwariant rhwng Cymru a Lloegr yn cau, mae’r targed hwnnw’n parhau i fod yn un o addewidion y Llywodraeth.

On the enterprise zones, we know that approximately an additional £10 million will be available, and that is funding from the Treasury to Wales. We want to ensure that that money is used to benefit the economy. We are still waiting for clarity from the Treasury on the capital allowances, however, as I have mentioned. On the target to spend an additional 1.5 per cent a year on education, namely the formula that was outlined in our manifesto to ensure that the spending gap between England and Wales is closed, that target remains a Government pledge.

O ran y rhaglen gyfalaf, mae’n anodd dros ben ar hyn o bryd mynd y tu hwnt i ffiniau’r arian cyfalaf sydd gennym. Serch hynny, hoffem weld y Cynulliad yn cael pwerau benthyg—dyhead y gwnaeth pob plaid ymrwymiad iddo cyn toriad yr haf. Peth od iawn yw clywed arweinydd Plaid Cymru’n beirniadu’r cam hwnnw yn awr.

As for the capital programme, it is currently very difficult to go beyond the capital funding available to us. However, we want to see borrowing powers come to the Assembly—that is an ambition that every party signed up to before the summer recess. It is very odd to hear the leader of Plaid Cymru criticising that now.

He has mentioned the Build for Wales programme. The idea that there are lots and lots of investors out there who want to buy bonds from an untested organisation, as far as financial dealings are concerned, is a very strange one. If you get Treasury backing for bonds, you end up with bonds that are the equivalent of UK Government gilts, and that is a different matter. To issue bonds without that backing would seem extremely unwise. However, that does not mean that we should not seek borrowing powers. My views on this are known. We have all signed up to a three-strand process whereby there are inter-governmental talks on the funding formula for Wales and on borrowing powers, outside of the commission’s work. We have all signed up to a commission looking at the potential devolution of taxation powers, followed by work looking at the potential devolution of further powers in the future. However, there is no party in this Assembly that has, to my mind, resisted the idea that the Government here should have borrowing powers, in the same way as Scotland and Ireland. It would be inequitable for capital projects to be funded in ways in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland that are not available to Wales. That clearly would not be right.

Soniodd am y rhaglen Adeiladu dros Gymru. Mae’r syniad bod nifer fawr o fuddsoddwyr allan yna sydd eisiau prynu bondiau gan sefydliad sydd heb ei brofi, o ran trafodion ariannol, yn un rhyfedd iawn. Os ydych yn cael cefnogaeth y Trysorlys ar gyfer bondiau, rydych yn diweddu gyda bondiau sy’n cyfateb i giltiau Llywodraeth y DU, ac mae hynny’n fater gwahanol. Tybiaf y byddai cyhoeddi bondiau heb y gefnogaeth honno yn hynod annoeth. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hynny’n golygu na ddylem geisio cael pwerau benthyg. Mae pobl yn gwybod fy marn am hyn. Rydym i gyd wedi cytuno ar broses tair ffrwd lle mae trafodaethau rhyng-lywodraethol ar y fformiwla ariannu i Gymru ac ar bwerau benthyg, y tu allan i waith y comisiwn. Rydym i gyd wedi cytuno y byddai’r comisiwn yn edrych ar y posibilrwydd o ddatganoli pwerau trethu, wedi’i ddilyn gan waith yn edrych ar y posibilrwydd o ddatganoli rhagor o bwerau yn y dyfodol. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r un blaid yn y Cynulliad hwn, hyd y gwelaf i, wedi gwrthwynebu’r syniad y dylai’r Llywodraeth yn y fan hyn feddu ar bwerau benthyg yn yr un modd â’r Alban ac Iwerddon. Ni fyddai’n deg pe bai projectau cyfalaf i gael eu hariannu yn Lloegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon mewn ffyrdd sydd ddim ar gael i Gymru. Yn amlwg, fyddai hynny ddim yn iawn.

When it comes to the NHS and education, everyone can see what we are outlining and what we wish to do. We want to see improvements in our education system, better performance on the part of Welsh students, easier access to education for students, continuing access for students to higher education and continued improvement in the underlying health of our people. If you look at heart disease statistics in Wales, you will see that they have improved markedly over the past decade. That is very much because of the policies that were put in place some 10 years ago to improve people’s health with regard to heart disease. As far as this programme for government is concerned, it is clear, it is detailed, it can be scrutinised and it contains measurable outcomes as far as the people of Wales are concerned.

Pan ddaw i’r GIG ac addysg, mae pawb yn gallu gweld beth rydym yn ei amlinellu a beth rydym yn dymuno ei wneud. Rydym eisiau gweld gwelliannau yn ein system addysg, gwell perfformiad ar ran myfyrwyr o Gymru, mynediad haws at addysg i fyfyrwyr, mynediad parhaus i fyfyrwyr i addysg uwch a gwelliant parhaus i iechyd sylfaenol ein pobl. Os edrychwch ar ystadegau clefyd y galon yng Nghymru, fe welwch eu bod wedi gwella’n sylweddol dros y degawd diwethaf. Mae hynny i raddau helaeth iawn oherwydd y polisïau a roddwyd ar waith 10 mlynedd yn ôl i wella iechyd pobl o ran clefyd y galon. Cyhyd ag mae’r rhaglen lywodraethu hon yn y cwestiwn, mae’n glir, mae’n fanwl, gellir craffu arni ac mae’n cynnwys canlyniadau mesuradwy cyhyd ag y bod pobl Cymru yn y cwestiwn.  

Kirsty Williams: I listened carefully to what the First Minister said in response to the questions raised by Ieuan Wyn Jones, leader of Plaid Cymru. What jumped out at me was that he could not understand why the leader of Plaid Cymru was being so critical of his statement because, after all, the programme before us is not very different from that of the last Government. Maybe I could understand and accept that if our economy was flying, our children outperforming children in the rest of the UK, and Welsh patients being treated more quickly in our NHS hospitals than anywhere else on this island, but the sad reality is that none of that is happening. We have waited 145 days for this programme of Government. One could have hoped that we would have a clear road map of what this Government expects to deliver on behalf of the people of Wales, but it seems that all that has happened is that someone has taken 145 days to find the ‘copy and paste’ function on a word processor to take this programme from the Labour party’s manifesto, literally in some cases, because the document refers to Welsh Labour and not the Welsh Government.  

Kirsty Williams: Gwrandewais yn astud ar beth ddywedodd y Prif Weinidog mewn ateb i gwestiynau gan Ieuan Wyn Jones, arweinydd Plaid Cymru. Yr hyn a’m tarodd i fwyaf oedd nad oedd yn gallu deall pam bod arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn bod mor feirniadol o’i ddatganiad achos, wedi’r cyfan, nid yw’r rhaglen sydd ger ein bron yn wahanol iawn i un y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf. Efallai y gallwn i dderbyn a deall hynny pe bai ein heconomi yn ffynnu, ein plant yn perfformio’n well na’r rhai yng ngweddill y DU, a chleifion o Gymru yn cael eu trin ynghynt yn ein hysbytai GIG nag unrhyw le arall ar yr ynys hon, ond y gwirionedd trist yw nad oes dim o hyn yn digwydd. Rydym wedi aros am 145 diwrnod i gael y rhaglen lywodraethu hon. Byddai rhywun wedi disgwyl y byddem wedi cael map clir o’r hyn mae’r Llywodraeth yn disgwyl ei gyflawni ar ran pobl Cymru, ond mae’n edrych fel pe bai’r cyfan sydd wedi digwydd yw bod rhywun wedi cymryd 145 diwrnod i rywun ffeindio’r botwm ar brosesydd geiriau i gopïo a gludo’r rhaglen hon o faniffesto’r blaid Lafur, yn llythrennol mewn rhai achosion, gan fod y ddogfen yn cyfeirio at Lafur Cymru ac nid Llywodraeth Cymru.

That is so depressing when we consider the challenges facing the country. I had hoped that we would have had a picture of what delivery and success look like for this Government. The First Minister talks about making the lives of people in Wales more healthy and productive in a more prosperous and innovative economy, in safer and more cohesive communities, with lower levels of poverty, with greater equality, a resilient environment and small, sustainable uses of resources. Of course the First Minister wants all that—it would be a pretty strange First Minister who wanted a less sustainable environment; it would be a pretty strange First Minister if he wanted more unhealthy people or an unsuccessful economy. Talk about stating the obvious, Carwyn. We all want these things for the people of Wales; the question is: are the actions outlined in your document the right actions with the evidence base behind them to make this a reality, and how will the people of Wales and we, as Assembly Members, be able to judge you on that? There is very little here that we can truly judge you on.

Mae hynny mor drist pan rydym yn ystyried yr heriau sy’n wynebu’r wlad. Roeddwn wedi gobeithio y byddem yn cael darlun ar sut y byddai cyflawni a llwyddiant yn edrych i’r Llywodraeth hon. Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn sôn am wneud bywydau pobl yng Nghymru yn fwy iach a chynhyrchiol mewn economi ffyniannus a dyfeisgar, mewn cymunedau mwy diogel a chydlynol, gyda llai o dlodi, mwy o gydraddoldeb, amgylchedd cadarn a defnydd bach a chynaliadwy o adnoddau. Wrth gwrs bod y Prif Weinidog eisiau hynny i gyd—byddai’n Brif Weinidog rhyfedd iawn a fyddai eisiau amgylchedd llai cynaliadwy; byddai’n Brif Weinidog rhyfedd iawn pe bai eisiau gweld pobl lai iach neu economi aflwyddiannus. Sôn am ddweud yr amlwg, Carwyn. Rydym i gyd eisiau’r pethau hyn i bobl Cymru; y cwestiwn yw: a yw’r camau a amlinellwyd yn eich dogfen yn gamau cywir gyda’r dystiolaeth tu cefn iddynt i wireddu hyn, a sut y bydd pobl Cymru, a ni fel Aelodau Cynulliad, yn gallu eich barnu ar hynny? Nid oes fawr ddim yma y gallwn eich gwir farnu arno.  

For instance, probably the most important thing that any Government can do is to look at its economy. You talk about the four indicators that you will monitor to judge whether your Government is going to be a success: gross disposable household income; primary income per capita; interestingly, gross value added, because usually, when anyone mentions GVA in this Chamber, we are told that that is an inaccurate indicator for the economy, but I am glad that it has finally met with your approval and made it in; and employment rates. However, this document does not tell us what successful GVA figures look like, what successful primary income per capita figures look like or what successful GDHI figures look like. If you can tell us what those are, we would be grateful. 

Er enghraifft, mae’n debyg mai’r peth pwysicaf y gall unrhyw Lywodraeth ei wneud yw edrych ar ei heconomi. Rydych yn sôn am y pedwar dangosydd y byddwch yn eu monitro er mwyn barnu a fydd eich Llywodraeth yn llwyddiant: incwm gwario gros yr aelwydydd; prif incwm y pen; yn ddiddorol, gwerth ychwanegol gros, achos fel arfer pan mae rhywun yn sôn amdano yn y Siambr, dywedir wrthym ei fod yn ddangosydd anfanwl ar gyfer yr economi, ond rwy’n falch ei fod wedi ei gymeradwyo gennych o’r diwedd ac wedi ei gynnwys; a chyfraddau cyflogaeth. Fodd bynnag, nid yw’r ddogfen hon yn dweud wrthym sut y bydd ffigurau GVA llwyddiannus yn edrych, sut y bydd ffigurau prif incwm y pen llwyddiannus yn edrych na sut y bydd ffigurau GDHI llwyddiannus yn edrych. Os gallech ddweud wrthym beth yw’r rheini, byddem yn ddiolchgar.

At the same time, will you tell us how big a percentage of children aged zero to three will have good or very good health? What percentage of children entering the foundation phase will meet age expectations? The crucial element missing in this document is that whenever a percentage figure appears in one of these pretty yellow boxes, there is the absence of a figure attached to it. There is a percentage mark, but there is not a single figure there to tell us what success looks like. We all want better educated and healthier children and we all want a stronger economy. It is not beyond expectation to find out how you will do that, because this document does not do so; it does not tell us what success looks like.   

Ar yr un pryd, a wnewch chi ddweud wrthym faint o ganran o blant oed dim i dair bydd yn cael iechyd da neu dda iawn? Pa ganran o blant sy’n dechrau’r cyfnod sylfaen fydd yn cwrdd â disgwyliadau oed? Yr elfen allweddol sydd ar goll yn y ddogfen hon yw pa bynnag ganran sy’n ymddangos yn un o’r bocsys melyn tlws hynny, mae ffigur wrth ei ochr yn absennol. Mae canran, ond nid oes unrhyw ffigur i ddweud wrthym sut y byddai llwyddiant yn edrych. Rydym i gyd eisiau plant wedi cael addysg well ac iachach ac rydym i gyd eisiau economi gryfach. Nid ydym yn gofyn gormod pan rydym yn gofyn sut y byddwch yn gwneud hynny, gan nad yw’r ddogfen hon yn gwneud hynny; nid yw’n dweud wrthym sut y bydd llwyddiant yn edrych.

3.15 p.m.

I understand that you referred in your conference speech yesterday to targets and to how people will be able to monitor what you do. There is not a single target in here that is meaningful. Even you, First Minister, could make a success of this document, because, according to you, if we can get one extra person to give up smoking, that is success. If we can get one extra person into a job, that is success. That is absolutely meaningless, and we have waited 145 days for it. I would like to give you the opportunity now to put a figure in front of every single percentage mark in this document.

Rwy’n deall eich bod wedi cyfeirio yn eich araith yn y gynhadledd ddoe at dargedau a sut y bydd pobl yn gallu monitro beth rydych yn ei wneud. Nid oes un targed yn y fan hyn sy’n ystyrlon. Gallai hyd yn oed chi, Brif Weinidog, wneud llwyddiant o’r ddogfen hon achos, yn ôl chi, os gallwn gael un person ychwanegol i roi’r gorai i ysmygu, mae hynny’n llwyddiant. Os gallwn gael un person ychwanegol i mewn i swydd, mae hynny’n llwyddiant. Mae hynny’n gwbl ddiystyr, ac rydym wedi aros 145 diwrnod amdano. Hoffwn roi cyfle i chi nawr i roi ffigur o flaen bob un canran yn y ddogfen hon.

The First Minister: I will give the Member some targets: 4,000 young people getting apprenticeships and training through the Welsh jobs fund, doubling the number of families who benefit from Flying Start, 500 extra police community support officers. These are all the targets that the people of Wales voted for. They did not vote for your party. You may not like it, but that is the reality of the situation.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fe roddaf rywfaint o dargedau i’r Aelod: 4,000 o bobl ifanc  yn cael prentisiaethau a hyfforddiant drwy gronfa swyddi Cymru, dyblu nifer y teuluoedd sy’n elwa o Ddechrau’n Deg, 500 ychwanegol o swyddogion cymorth cymunedol yr heddlu. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn dargedau y gwnaeth pobl Cymru bleidleisio drostynt. Ni wnaethant bleidleisio dros eich plaid chi. Efallai nad ydych yn ei hoffi, ond dyna yw gwirionedd y sefyllfa.

I listened carefully to the Member’s speech in the Lib Dem conference and I thought ‘This is someone who is desperate to lose friends’. She was attacking everyone: attacking the poor Secretary of State for Wales, attacking me—I expect that—and attacking Plaid Cymru. The Lib Dems are drifting off to a political desert island on their own. Is there any wonder why? One promise made by the Lib Dems in the general election was to abolish student tuition fees. What did they do? They put it up to £9,000 a year. Then, yesterday, a Welsh Lib Dem spokesperson said that, when the Labour Party put a cap of £6,000 on tuition fees in England, Labour had sold students down the river, without any sense of irony at all. We know what the Lib Dems do: they say one thing and do completely the opposite. We cannot take any lessons when it comes to targets or delivery from the Lib Dems. We know that Lib Dems deliver, but they deliver in direct contradiction to what they promised in the first place. Therefore, yes, people are being treated differently in Wales— [Interruption.]

Gwrandewais yn ofalus ar araith yr Aelod yng nghynhadledd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol a meddyliais ‘Dyma rywun sydd ar dân i golli ffrindiau’. Roedd yn ymosod ar bawb; yn ymosod ar Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru druan, ymosod arna i—rwy’n disgwyl hynny—ac ymosod ar Blaid Cymru. Mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn llithro i ffwrdd i’r diffeithwch gwleidyddol ar ben ei hunain. A ydyw’n unrhyw syndod? Un addewid a wnaed gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn yr etholiad cyffredinol oedd diddymu ffioedd dysgu myfyrwyr. Gwnaethant eu codi i £9,000 y flwyddyn. Wedyn, ddoe, dywedodd llefarydd ar ran Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru bod y Blaid Lafur, pan rhoesant derfyn o £6,000 ar ffioedd dysgu yn Lloegr, wedi troi eu cefn ar fyfyrwyr, heb unrhyw eironi o gwbl. Gwyddom beth mae’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn ei wneud: dweud un peth a gwneud yn hollol i’r gwrthwyneb. Ni allwn gymryd gwersi pan ddaw i dargedau neu gyflawni gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol. Gwyddom eu bod yn cyflawni, ond yn cyflawni rhywbeth hollol groes i’r hyn y gwnaethant ei addo yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, ydyn, mae pobl yn cael eu trin yn wahanol yng Nghymru— [Torri ar draws.]

The Presiding Officer: Order. Can we try to listen to what the First Minister is saying, please?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. Allwn ni wrando ar beth mae’r Prif Weinidog yn ei ddweud, os gwelwch yn dda?

The First Minister: Students are treated differently in Wales. People in Wales are treated differently with regard to access to medicines, and rightly so. There are disabled and older people in Wales who are getting concessionary bus travel in a way that will not be available in England in years to come. There are 12,000 people in Wales who are in jobs because of the ProAct scheme. We have kept Skills Growth Wales, we have kept Adapt, we have kept ReAct; these are all schemes that will benefit the people of Wales in the future.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae myfyrwyr yn cael eu trin yn wahanol yng Nghymru. Mae pobl yng Nghymru yn cael eu trin yn wahanol o ran mynediad i feddyginiaethau, fel y dylent. Mae pobl anabl a phobl hŷn yng Nghymru yn cael tocynnau teithio rhatach ar y bws na fydd ar gael yn Lloegr mewn blynyddoedd i ddod. Mae 12,000 o bobl yng Nghymru mewn swyddi oherwydd y cynllun ProAct. Rydym wedi cadw Sgiliau Twf Cymru, rydym wedi cadw Adapt, rydym wedi cadw ReAct; mae’r rhain i gyd yn gynlluniau a fydd yn elwa pobl Cymru yn y dyfodol.

This document contains indicators and it is a clear plan for government. Apparently, this is a matter of criticism, but it is based on the manifesto on which the Government was elected. I know that the Lib Dems do not go down that line, but it is certainly something that we like to do as a Government and as Welsh Labour, and Welsh Labour, of course, is the Government. The reality is that this programme for government is detailed; it provides a clear path as to where Wales needs to go in the next five years. It provides ample opportunity for Members to scrutinise what the Government is doing. It is quite clear in that regard and it is a programme on which we will stand very proudly over the course of the next five years.

Mae’r ddogfen hon yn cynnwys dangosyddion ac mae’n gynllun llywodraethu clir. Yn ôl bob golwg, mae hyn yn rhywbeth i’w feirniadu, ond mae wedi seilio ar y maniffesto y cafodd y Llywodraeth ei ethol arno. Gwn nad yw’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn dilyn y llwybr hwnnw, ond mae’n bendant yn rhywbeth yr ydym yn hoffi ei wneud fel Llywodraeth, a Llafur Cymru, wrth gwrs, yw’r Llywodraeth. Y gwir amdani yw bod y rhaglen lywodraethu hon yn fanwl; mae’n rhoi llwybr clir o ran lle mae angen i Gymru fynd yn y pum mlynedd nesaf. Mae’n rhoi hen ddigon o gyfle i’r Aelodau graffu ar beth mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud. Mae’n ddigon clir yn hynny o beth ac mae’n rhaglen y byddwn yn falch iawn ohoni fel sail dros y pum mlynedd nesaf.

Christine Chapman: First Minister, I welcome your statement on the programme for government and I am pleased that you are focusing on delivery in particular. I note your aspiration for safer and more cohesive communities and, of course, the wellbeing of children is at the heart of this. Recent research from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children has revealed that one in five secondary school children have been abused or neglected during childhood. In Wales, neglect accounts for around half the number of child protection registrations. If we do not address this, these children will be in danger of missing out on opportunities to make the most of their abilities. These children will have blighted lives unless we do something about this. In light of those statistics, will you give an assurance today, First Minister, that, in delivering this programme, the Welsh Government will work towards embedding safeguarding issues across all policy areas, in order to ensure that delivering child protection truly is everyone’s responsibility?

Christine Chapman: Brif Weinidog, rwy’n croesawu eich datganiad ar y rhaglen llywodraethu ac rwy’n falch eich bod yn canolbwyntio ar gyflawni yn benodol. Nodaf eich dyhead am gymunedau mwy diogel a chydlynol ac, wrth gwrs, mae lles plant wrth wraidd hyn. Datgelodd ymchwil gan y Gymdeithas Genedlaethol er Atal Creulondeb i Blant yn ddiweddar bod un o bob pump o blant ysgolion uwchradd wedi cael eu cam-drin neu esgeuluso yn eu plentyndod. Yng Nghymru, mae esgeuluso yn gyfrifol am tua hanner y plant ar y gofrestr diogelu plant. Os nad ydym yn ymdrin â hyn, mae perygl y bydd y plant hyn yn colli cyfleoedd i wneud y mwyaf o’u gallu. Bydd bywydau’r plant hyn yn cael eu difetha os na wnawn ni rywbeth am hyn. O ystyried yr ystadegau hynny, a wnewch chi roi sicrwydd heddiw, Brif Weinidog, y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth gyflawni’r rhaglen hon yn gweithio tuag at ymwreiddio materion diogelu ym mhob maes polisi, er mwyn sicrhau bod darparu diogelwch i blant wir yn gyfrifoldeb i bawb?

The First Minister: Of course, it has to be. We know that the welfare of children is something that cuts across many portfolios and many departments in Government. It is essential that we have the right procedures for safeguarding in place for the benefit of our children.

Y Prif Weinidog: Wrth gwrs, mae’n rhaid iddo fod. Gwyddom fod lles plant yn rhywbeth sy’n torri ar draws sawl portffolio a sawl adran mewn Llywodraeth. Mae’n hanfodol fod gennym y gweithdrefnau cywir i ddiogelu ar waith er budd ein plant. 

The Presiding Officer: We have had eloquent speeches from all the leaders and spokespeople. I ask the remaining speakers to ask questions of the First Minister.

Y Llywydd: Rydym wedi cael areithiau huawdl gan bob arweinydd a llefarydd. Gofynnaf i’r siaradwyr sydd ar ôl ofyn cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog.

Nick Ramsay: I welcome the First Minister’s statement. I have a few questions to ask following on from some of his comments. I do not have a copy of the document with me, but I noticed that there was a nice sunflower on its front. I grew one of those in my garden last year; it grew very tall and then fell over. I hope that that does not foreshadow what is in this document. [Laughter.]

Nick Ramsay: Rwy’n croesawu datganiad y Prif Weinidog. Mae gennyf  ambell i gwestiwn i’w ofyn yn dilyn rhai o’i sylwadau. Nid oes gennyf gopi o’i ddogfen gyda mi, ond sylwais fod ganddo flodyn haul tlws ar ei glawr. Tyfais un o’r rheini yn fy ngardd y llynedd; tyfodd yn dal iawn, wedyn cwympodd. Gobeithio nad yw hynny’n rhagarwydd o’r hyn sydd yn y ddogfen hon. [Chwerthin.]

I will ask you about three specific areas, First Minister. You mentioned the cancer drugs fund in your statement, for which we have been calling, and you spoke about the amount of money being put into that area by your Government. It was not the question of the amount of money going in that concerned me, but the fact that the cancer drugs fund is not just there to provide overall funding for drugs; it is there to provide a specific fund for those drugs that are not always readily accessible. That is an issue that we are concerned about. If you are not going to have a cancer drugs fund in Wales, unlike England, how do you propose to meet the demand for some of those rarer drugs that some people, but not all, need? We are talking here about a small number of people in Wales.

Fe wnaf eich holi am dri maes penodol, Brif Weinidog. Fe sonioch am y gronfa cyffuriau canser, y buom yn galw amdani, yn eich datganiad a sonioch am y swm o arian sy’n cael ei roi yn y maes hwnnw gan eich Llywodraeth. Nid y swm o arian a oedd yn mynd i mewn i hynny oedd yn fy mhryderu, ond y ffaith nad yw’r gronfa cyffuriau canser yno i ddarparu cyllid cyffredinol ar gyfer cyffuriau; mae yno i ddarparu cronfa benodol ar gyfer cyffuriau nad ydynt ar gael yn hawdd bob amser. Dyna yw’r mater rydym yn pryderu amdano. Os nad ydych yn mynd i gael cronfa cyffuriau canser yng Nghymru, nid fel Lloegr, sut ydych chi’n bwriadu diwallu’r galw am rai o’r cyffuriau llai cyffredin y bydd rhai pobl, ond nid pawb, eu hangen? Rydym yn sôn yn y fan hyn am nifer fach o bobl yng Nghymru.  

On the rural affairs section of the document, we have said in the past that we regret the fact that the rural affairs brief has been downgraded. It was untimely, given the calibre of the Deputy Minister who has now come in, but, clearly, you saw fit to downgrade that brief. There is no mention of Glastir, unless I am wrong; maybe I skim-read it. There did not seem to be a specific reference—[Interruption.] It is not evident among the main priorities. There have been serious concerns about the operation of Glastir, First Minister. You have offloaded your partners in the previous Welsh Assembly Government; perhaps this could be an opportunity for you to reconnect with farmers.

O ran adran materion gwledig y ddogfen, rydym wedi dweud yn y gorffennol ein bod yn siomedig fod y briff materion gwledig wedi cael ei israddio. Roedd yn gynamserol, o ystyried calibr y Dirprwy Weinidog sydd bellach wedi dod mewn, ond yn amlwg, fe weloch yn dda i israddio’r briff. Nid oes sôn am Glastir, os nad wyf  yn anghywir; efallai y gwneuthum ei ddarllen yn frysiog. Nid oedd yn edrych fel pe bai cyfeiriad penodol—[Torri ar draws.]  Nid yw’n amlwg ymysg y prif flaenoriaethau. Bu pryderon difrifol am y ffordd y mae Glastir yn cael ei weithredu, Brif Weinidog. Rydych wedi cael gwared ar eich partneriaid o’r Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru flaenorol; efallai bod hyn yn gyfle i chi ailgysylltu gyda ffermwyr. 

Finally, in terms of the enterprise and business section of the document, there is a commitment to enterprise zones there, which we have welcomed. It is a good move; it is belated, but we welcome the fact that enterprise zones are in there. That needed to happen, and I am pleased that your Government has acted on that. On entrepreneurial support, you have said that there will be a review of what entrepreneurial support is needed by small firms. In my discussions with the entrepreneurial sector, there has been concern about discussions with the Government and the accessibility of officers. In addition, on the delivery side of the document, you must accept that the outcomes of money put into the entrepreneurial sector are not as readily visible as they might be in some other areas. There is a risk-averseness in the Welsh Government. We all know that it is there; it has been there since the Welsh Development Agency was abolished and it needs to be dealt with. How will you ensure that you monitor the outcomes of the entrepreneurial sector of the economy in a way that does not simply look at the financial outcomes, because, ultimately, the people in those small businesses often provide innovation and technological development with advantages that may not be obvious at the outset, but certainly are later on?

Yn olaf, o ran adran menter a busnes y ddogfen, mae ymrwymiad i barthau menter yno, ac rydym wedi croesawu hynny. Mae’n symudiad da; mae’n hwyr yn y dydd, ond rydym yn croesawu’r ffaith bod parthau menter yno. Roedd angen i hynny ddigwydd, ac rwy’n falch bod eich llywodraeth wedi gweithredu ar hynny. O ran cymorth entrepreneuraidd, dywedoch y bydd adolygiad o ba gymorth entrepreneuraidd sydd ei angen ar fusnesau bach. Yn fy nhrafodaethau gyda’r sector entrepreneuraidd, bu pryder am drafodaethau gyda’r Llywodraeth a pha mor hawdd yw hi i gael gafael ar swyddogion. At hynny, o ran ochr gyflawni’r ddogfen, rhaid ichi dderbyn nad yw canlyniadau’r arian a roddir yn y sector entrepreneuraidd mor hawdd i’w gweld ag ydynt o bosibl mewn meysydd eraill. Mae amharodrwydd i gymryd risg yn Llywodraeth Cymru. Rydym i gyd yn gwybod ei fod yno; bu yno ers diddymu Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ac mae angen ymdrin ag ef. Sut y gwnewch chi sicrhau eich bod yn monitro canlyniadau sector entrepreneuraidd yr economi mewn ffordd sydd ddim ond yn edrych ar y canlyniadau ariannol, achos yn y pen draw mae’r bobl yn y busnesau bach hynny yn darparu dyfeisgarwch a datblygiad technolegol gyda manteision sydd ddim efallai yn amlwg ar y cychwyn, ond yn bendant yn hwyrach ymlaen?

The First Minister: First of all, on the cancer drugs fund, I have already made the point that all that has happened in England is that spending has been brought closer to the Welsh level. Nevertheless, spending on cancer drugs in Wales is higher per person. It is as easy as that. If GPs wish to prescribe certain drugs, an assessment can be made on a case-by-case basis. However, we will not bow to pressure from pharmaceutical companies in order to provide drugs that are of questionable effectiveness. I say that quite clearly. I am not doing it.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yn gyntaf, o ran y gronfa cyffuriau canser, rwyf eisoes wedi gwneud y pwynt mai’r cyfan sydd wedi digwydd yn Lloegr yw bod gwariant wedi cael ei dynnu’n agosach at lefel Cymru. Er hynny, mae gwariant ar gyffuriau canser yng Nghymru yn uwch y pen. Mae mor syml â hynny.  Os yw meddygon teulu yn dymuno rhagnodi cyffuriau penodol, gellir gwneud asesiad ar sail yr achos. Fodd bynnag, ni wnawn ildio oherwydd pwysau gan gwmnïau fferyllol i ddarparu cyffuriau lle mae amheuaeth am eu heffeithiolrwydd. Dywedaf hynny’n ddigon clir. Ni wnaf hynny.

Secondly, with regard to the rural affairs portfolio, page 43 contains a reference to Glastir. We must remember that Glastir is a scheme that was brought forward based on changes to European rules. It is right to say that the previous Government and, indeed, any Government in any member state of the European Union, did not and do not have a free hand when it comes to constructing systems of agricultural support. Bluntly, there was little choice other than to put Glastir in place given the changes that had taken place with regard to pillars 1 and 2 in European farming support.

Yn ail, o ran y portffolio materion gwledig, mae tudalen 43 yn cynnwys cyfeiriad at Glastir. Rhaid i ni gofio mai cynllun yw Glastir a gyflwynwyd yn sgîl newidiadau i reolau Ewropeaidd. Mae’n gywir i ddweud na wnaeth y Llywodraeth flaenorol, nac yn wir unrhyw Lywodraeth mewn unrhyw aelod wladwriaeth yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, gael rhwydd hynt i greu systemau cymorth amaethyddol, ac mae hynny’n dal yn wir. Yn blwmp ac yn blaen, nid oedd fawr o ddewis ond i gyflwyno Glastir o ystyried y newidiadau a wnaed i bileri 1 a 2 o ran cymorth ffermio Ewropeaidd.

I welcome your comments on enterprise zones. With regard to entrepreneurial support, I am surprised to hear that officers are not accessible. The Minister certainly is and is someone who has spent much of the summer meeting with organisations representing business and businesses themselves. With regard to sunflowers, there is one thing that you can say about them: people like them.

Rwy’n croesawu eich sylwadau ar barthau menter. O ran cymorth entrepreneuraidd, rwy’n synnu clywed ei bod yn anodd cael gafael ar swyddogion. Mae’r Gweinidog yn sicr yn rhywun a dreuliodd lawer o’r haf yn cwrdd â sefydliadau sy’n cynrychioli busnes a busnesau eu hunain. O ran blodau haul, mae un peth i’w ddweud amdanynt: mae pobl yn eu hoffi.

Alun Ffred Jones: Brif Weinidog, mae fy nghwestiwn cyntaf i hefyd yn ymwneud â mesur llwyddiant neu aflwyddiant. Mae targedau yn absennol o’r ddogfen hon. Yr ydych newydd gyfeirio, wrth sôn am dai, er enghraifft, at ffigur o 7,000 o anheddau newydd bob blwyddyn. Pam, felly, nad yw’r ffigur hwnnw yn y ddogfen, os mai dyna yw eich targed? Mae hynny’n wir ar draws y sectorau yn gyffredinol. Os nad ydych yn rhoi targedau, a wnewch ymrwymo i roi ffigurau cymharol, i ddangos cynnydd neu fel arall ar draws y blynyddoedd, er mwyn inni allu gweld beth sy’n digwydd i’r gwahanol raglenni?

Alun Ffred Jones: First Minister, may I also ask the first question on this issue of measuring success or failure? There is an absence of targets in this document. You have just referred, for example, in talking about houses, to a figure of 7,000 new residences each year. Why is that figure not contained in the document if it is your target? That is true across all the sectors. If you are not giving targets, would you commit yourself to giving comparative figures in order to show progress or otherwise across the years, so that we can see exactly what the trends are in these various programmes?

Yr ail fater yw gwariant cyfalaf, y mae Ieuan Wyn Jones eisoes wedi cyfeirio ato. Yr ydych yn cyfeirio ato ddwywaith—unwaith, wrth gyfeirio at fuddsoddi cyhoeddus yn y seilwaith cyhoeddus, yr ydych yn dweud eich bod yn ymchilio i ffyrdd arloesol o ddenu cyfalaf, a dan y pennawd ‘Cartrefi Cymru’ yr ydych yn sôn am ddatblygu a hyrwyddo ffyrdd newydd o ddarparu tir a chyllid ar gyfer tai. Pa gynnydd a wnaed ar y trafodaethau hyn ar ffyrdd arloesol o godi arian, a beth sydd dan sylw?

The second matter is the capital expenditure that Ieuan Wyn Jones has already alluded to. You mention it twice—once in referring to public investment in infrastructure, where you talk about research into innovative methods of securing capital, and secondly, under the heading ‘Welsh Homes’ you talk about developing and promoting new methods of providing land and funding for houses. What progress has been made in the discussions as regards these innovative ways of raising funds, and what exactly have you in mind there?

Yn olaf, mae dau faes lle nad oes fawr ddim cyfeiriad atynt. Un ohonynt yw trafnidiaeth. Mae’n anhygoel bod dogfen Lywodraeth yn gwneud dim ond dweud eich bod yn cyflawni blaenoriaethau’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol, heb nodi’r blaenoriaethau hynny. Yr ail fater, sy’n gysylltiedig â’r economi, yw trethi busnes. Mae distawrwydd yn y ddogfen ar hynny. Beth yw bwriad y Llywodraeth yn y maes hwnnw?

Finally, there are two areas that are hardly referred to at all, and one of them is transport. It is incredible that a Government document does nothing but say that you are delivering the priorities of the national transport plan without setting out those priorities. The second matter, associated with the economy, is business rates. There is total silence as regards that. Please could you tell us what the Government’s intention is?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n rhaid pwysleisio y bydd mwy o fanylion i ddod yn ystod bywyd y Llywodraeth ar rai o’r cynlluniau hynny. Gyda’r cynllun trafnidiaeth, er enghraifft, byddech yn disgwyl mwy o fanylion ar y cynllun hwnnw. Nod cynllun llywodraeth yw sicrhau bod pobl yn deall cyfeiriad y Llywodraeth a bod y cyhoedd yn gallu mesur yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth wedi’i wneud. Bydd manylion yn dod yn fuan ar y cynllun trafnidiaeth, er enghraifft, sy’n cael ei ystyried ar hyn o bryd, a chynlluniau eraill  ym maes addysg ac iechyd. Bydd y ffigurau yn gyhoeddus, felly bydd pobl yn gallu mesur llwyddiant y Llywodraeth o ran gwella ansawdd bywydau pobl. O ran tai, er enghraifft, mae sôn wedi bod am y bond buddsoddi tai, ac ar gyfalaf, un o’r pethau y mae’r holl bleidiau wedi cytuno arno yw’r ffaith bod rhaid edrych o ddifrif ar greu pwerau i’r Llywodraeth yma allu benthyca arian. Dyna ffordd o sicrhau bod mwy o gyfalaf ar gael yn y dyfodol, o gofio bod gwasgu wedi bod ar gyllideb gyfalaf Llywodraeth Cymru.

The First Minister: We need to emphasise that more details will be provided during the lifetime of the Government, as we progress. With the transport plan, for example, you would expect more details to be part of that plan. The purpose of the programme of government is to set out the Government’s direction of travel, so that the public can assess exactly what the Government has achieved. Details will be made available in the near future with regard to the national transport plan, which is currently being considered, and other schemes in relation to health and education. The figures will be public, so people will be able to assess what the Government’s success rate is in ensuring improvement in people’s lives. In terms of housing, for example, there has been talk of the housing investment bond, and in terms of capital, one of the things that all of the parties here have agreed on is the fact that we need to look seriously at powers to borrow, so that the Government here can borrow money. That is a means of ensuring that more capital is available for the future, bearing in mind that there has been huge pressure on the capital budget of the Welsh Government.

Antoinette Sandbach: First Minister, along with many of the Members here today, my concern is about delivery. You claim that you wish to put people and their experiences at the centre of your work. If that is what you want to see, why do you not create an independent unit that can scrutinise your work? If you want the co-operation of this Assembly in bringing forward your programme for government, why not create the equivalent of the Office for Budget Responsibility—an independent body that is not politically accountable—and allow it to come up with the statistics? They could then be used by this Assembly to judge whether you have hit the non-existent targets in your document.

Antoinette Sandbach: Brif Weinidog, ynghyd â sawl Aelod yma heddiw, mae gen i bryder am gyflawni. Rydych yn honni eich bod am roi pobl a’u profiadau wrth wraidd eich gwaith. Os mai dyna rydych am ei weld, pam na wnewch chi greu uned annibynnol sy’n gallu craffu ar eich gwaith? Os ydych eisiau cydweithrediad y Cynulliad i gyflwyno eich rhaglen lywodraethu, pam na wnewch chi greu’r hyn sy’n cyfateb i’r Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol—corff annibynnol sydd ddim yn atebol yn wleidyddol—a gadael iddi ddod i fyny gyda’r ystadegau? Gallent wedyn gael eu defnyddio gan y Cynulliad hwn i farnu a ydych wedi cyflawni’r targedau anweledig yn eich dogfen. 

The First Minister: I do wonder sometimes whether the Welsh Conservatives have any independent mind at all, or whether they operate to a script provided by Whitehall. This is what is happening in England, so we should do it in Wales—that just about sums up the strapline for Welsh Conservatives.

Y Prif Weinidog: Rwy’n amau weithiau a yw’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn gallu meddwl yn annibynnol o gwbl, neu a ydynt yn gweithio i sgript gan y Neuadd Wen. Dyma beth sy’n digwydd yn Lloegr, felly dylem ei wneud yng Nghymru—mae hynny fwy neu lai yn crynhoi meddylfryd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig.

When it comes to delivery, the last thing that we should do is set up another quango that will sit there examining Government. We have an Assembly to do that. Bluntly, I have more faith in Members here, and their ability to scrutinise Government, than the Member opposite does. We do not need an independent quango to scrutinise the Government in Wales when we already have an Assembly and a Public Accounts Committee. I am sure that Members are perfectly capable of scrutinising the Government thoroughly and properly.

Pan ddaw i gyflawni, y peth olaf ddylem ei wneud yw sefydlu cwango arall a fydd yn eistedd yna yn edrych ar y Llywodraeth. Mae gennym Gynulliad i wneud hynny. I fod yn blwmp ac yn blaen, mae genyf fwy o ffydd mewn Aelodau yn y fan hyn, a’u gallu i graffu ar y Llywodraeth, nag sydd gan yr Aelod gyferbyn. Nid ydym angen cwango annibynnol i graffu ar y Llywodraeth yng Nghymru pan mae gennym Gynulliad a Phwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus yn barod. Rwy’n siŵr fod digon o allu gan Aelodau yn i graffu ar y Llywodraeth yn drylwyr a phriodol.

3.30 p.m.

The delivery unit is up and running, and we are looking to ensure that what we say that we will do, we will do. The leader of the opposition described the delivery unit as ‘a press office on steroids’ this morning, which surprised the staff, as none of them are journalists or work as media officers, and you will see from looking at them that none of them show the outwards signs of having taken any kind of body-building substance.

Mae’r uned gyflawni wedi cychwyn ar ei gwaith, ac rydym eisiau sicrhau y byddwn yn gwneud unrhyw beth rydym yn ddweud y byddwn yn ei wneud. Disgrifiodd arweinydd yr wrthblaid yr uned gyflawni fel ‘swyddfa’r wasg ar steroidau’ y bore yma, a synnodd y staff, gan nad yw’r un ohonynt yn newyddiadurwr nag yn gweithio fel swyddog y cyfryngau, ac fe welwch o edrych arnynt nad yw’r un ohonynt yn edrych o’r tu allan fel pe baent wedi cymryd unrhyw fath o gyffuriau i ddatblygu’r corff.

Simon Thomas: Dechreuaf drwy fod yn bositif ynglŷn â’r rhaglen lywodraethu a chroesawu’r ffaith bod cyfeiriad yn y rhaglen at weithio gyda phartneriaid. Fodd bynnag, a yw’r Prif Weinidog yn derbyn mai un partner na chafodd ei grybwyll yn y rhaglen lywodraethu yw’r Senedd hon? Dim ond o ganlyniad i gydweithio, pleidleisio a dadlau yn y Senedd hon y cawsom raglen lywodraethu wedi’i chyhoeddi. Mae’n bwysig i’r Prif Weinidog gofio, fel y mae newydd sôn, fod yn rhaid iddo ddod yn ôl i’r Senedd i ni gael craffu ar rai o’r materion hyn.

Simon Thomas: I will start by being positive about the programme for government, and welcome the fact that reference is made in the document to working with partners. However, does the First Minister accept that one partner not mentioned in the programme for government is this Senedd? This programme for government was only published after co-operation, voting and debate in this Senedd. It is important for the First Minister to remember, as he has just said, that he has to return to the Senedd for us to scrutinise some of these issues.

Mae’n siomedig nad oes targedau mwy pendant yn y rhaglen, serch hynny, oherwydd yn ôl targedau yr ydym yn craffu ac yn dal y Llywodraeth i gyfrif. Gofynnaf ddau beth penodol ynghylch maes addysg a sgiliau. Yn gyntaf, nid oes sôn yn y rhaglen ynghylch nifer y prentisiaethau y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu eu creu. Mae’r Prif Weinidog yn hoff o feirniadu maniffesto Plaid Cymru am ddiffygion, ond dywedodd Plaid Cymru yn glir y byddai’n creu 30,000 o leoedd prentisiaeth. Faint o brentisiaethau y mae’n bwriadu eu creu yn ystod y pum mlynedd nesaf, a pham nad yw’r ffigur hwnnw yn y rhaglen lywodraethu?

It is disappointing that the document lacks concrete targets, however, because that is how we scrutinise the Government and hold it to account. I will ask two specific questions on education and skills. First, there is no mention in the document of the number of apprenticeships that the Government intends to create. The First Minister likes to criticise deficiencies in the Plaid Cymru manifesto, but Plaid Cymru said clearly that we would create 30,000 apprenticeships. How many apprenticeships does he intend to create over the next five years, and why is that figure not included in the programme for government?

Yn ail, i droi at lythrennedd, dywedodd Plaid Cymru y byddai’n hanneru nifer y plant sy’n gadael ysgol gynradd heb sgiliau darllen sylfaenol. Nid oes ffigur yn y rhaglen. Pa ffigur sydd gan y Prif Weinidog mewn golwg ar gyfer haneru, neu newid, nifer y plant sydd heb sgiliau darllen a rhifedd sylfaenol? Os edrychwch ar fanylion y rhaglen sy’n sôn am y polisïau hyn, mae’n dweud, o dan 3/012, fod y cynllun llythrennedd eisoes wedi’i gwblhau. A oes pwynt cael Gweinidog addysg, felly?

Secondly, turning to literacy, Plaid Cymru said that we would halve the number of children leaving primary school without basic reading skills. There is no figure in this document. What figure does the First Minister have in mind for halving, or changing, the number of children who lack basic reading and numeracy skills? If you look at the details of the programme for these policies, it says, under 3/012, that the literacy scheme has already been completed. Is there any point, therefore, in having a Minister for education?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n un peth cael cynllun, rhywbeth arall yw sicrhau bod y cynllun yn cael ei weithredu. Yr ydym yn deall hynny. Ynglŷn â’r targedau o ran prentisiaethau a hyfforddi, 4,000 y flwyddyn yw’r ffigur. Yr ydym wedi bod yn dweud hynny ers mis Mai. Dyna’r nod ar gyfer cronfa swyddi Cymru.

The First Minister: It is one thing to have a scheme, but something else entirely to ensure that it is implemented. We understand that. On targets for apprenticeships and training, the figure is 4,000 per annum. We have been saying that since May. That is the aim for the Welsh jobs fund.

Dyletswydd y Llywodraeth yw dod â rhaglen lywodraethu gerbron y Cynulliad. Mater i’r Cynulliad yw craffu ar yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud. Deallaf fod angen trafod y gyllideb cyn y Nadolig; yr ydym oll yn deall hynny. Mae rhai ohonom wedi bod yn Aelodau ers amser hir ac yn deall bod rhaid trafod er mwyn sicrhau cefnogaeth i’r gyllideb ac i ddeddfwriaeth yn ystod bywyd y Cynulliad hwn, hyd at 2016. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi cyhoeddi rhaglen lywodraethu, ac mae’n edrych ymlaen at drafod yn y dyfodol, yn enwedig ynglŷn â’r gyllideb, gyda’r pleidiau eraill. Yr wyf ar ddeall bod y trafodaethau hynny eisoes wedi dechrau.

It is the Government’s duty to bring a programme for government before the Assembly. It is for the Assembly to scrutinise what the Government does. I understand that we need to discuss the budget before Christmas; we all understand that. Some of us have been Members for a long time and understand that we must have discussions in order to secure support for the budget and for legislation during the lifetime of this Assembly, up to 2016. The Government has published a programme for government, and it looks forward to discussing it with other parties, especially with regard to the budget. I understand that those discussions have already started.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Melding) i’r Gadair am 3.34 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Melding) took the Chair at 3.34 p.m.

Datganiad: Y Wybodaeth Ddiweddaraf am Flaenau Gwent
Statement: Update on Blaenau Gwent

The Minister for Education and Skills (Leighton Andrews): In my statement in July, I advised Members of the results of Estyn’s inspection of education services in Blaenau Gwent, and informed them of the action that I was considering in response to that report. I said that I would return to this issue in the autumn and provide an update to Members outlining decisions, actions and progress to turn the situation in Blaenau Gwent around. Before I do that, I think that it is worth reminding Members of Estyn’s findings.

Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton Andrews): Yn fy natganiad ym mis Gorffennaf, dywedais wrth Aelodau am ganlyniadau arolygiad Estyn o wasanaethau addysg ym Mlaenau Gwent, a dywedais wrthynt am y camau roeddwn yn eu hystyried mewn ymateb i’r adroddiad hwnnw. Dywedais y byddwn yn dod yn ôl at y mater hwn yn yr hydref a rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Aelodau yn amlinellu’r penderfyniadau, camau a’r cynnydd i wyrdroi’r sefyllfa ym Mlaenau Gwent. Cyn i mi wneud hynny, credaf ei bod yn werth atgoffa Aelodau o ganfyddiadau Estyn.

Estyn’s overall judgment was that the local authority’s education services for children and young people in Blaenau Gwent are unsatisfactory. The authority’s capacity to improve was also judged by Estyn to be unsatisfactory. Estyn is of the opinion that the authority falls into the category of requiring special measures. Welsh Government statistics released earlier this month show that in 2010-11 Blaenau Gwent had the highest rate of absenteeism from maintained secondary and special schools in Wales. Given the gravity of the situation, my priority was to intervene in the education services of the authority to put the necessary arrangements and support in place to secure improvements as quickly as possible for the children and young people of Blaenau Gwent. There were a number of options open to me in responding to Estyn’s findings, including establishing an intervention board to oversee progress. However, following full consideration of the seriousness of and nature of the failings of the authority to perform its education functions, my decision was to issue a direction to the authority under section 497A of the Education Act 1996. That involved the appointment of two education commissioners, who, from 5 September, assumed responsibility for all of the education functions within Blaenau Gwent that were previously the responsibility of the executive. The education commissioners that I have appointed are Bethan Guilfoyle, former headteacher of Treorchy Comprehensive School, and Isobel Garner, former chief executive of Wrexham County Borough Council. I have also appointed two advisory education commissioners: former Assembly Member Nerys Evans, and Alan Evans of Cardiff University, an expert in literacy schemes. The advisory education commissioners do not have the education functions vested in them. Their role is to provide advice, support and challenge to the education commissioners in their role. I am confident that the education commissioners and advisory education commissioners have the necessary balance of skills, expertise and experience to turn the situation within Blaenau Gwent around.

Dyfarniad Estyn ar y cyfan oedd bod gwasanaethau addysg i blant a phobl ifanc ym Mlaenau Gwent gan yr awdurdod lleol yn anfoddhaol. Barnwyd hefyd gan Estyn fod gallu'r awdurdod i wella yn anfoddhaol. Mae Estyn o’r farn bod yr awdurdod yn cwympo i’r categori o fod angen mesurau arbennig. Dengys ystadegau Llywodraeth Cymru a ryddhawyd yn gynharach y mis hwn mai Blaenau Gwent oedd â’r gyfradd uchaf o absenoldeb o ysgolion a gynhelir ac ysgolion arbennig yng Nghymru. O ystyried pa mor ddifrifol oedd y sefyllfa, fy mlaenoriaeth oedd ymyrryd yng ngwasanaethau addysg yr awdurdod er mwyn rhoi’r trefniadau a’r gefnogaeth oedd eu hangen ar waith i sicrhau gwelliannau mor gyflym â phosibl i blant a phobl ifanc Blaenau Gwent. Roedd nifer o opsiynau ar gael i mi wrth ymateb i ganfyddiadau Estyn, gan gynnwys sefydlu bwrdd ymyrraeth i oruchwylio’r cynnydd. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl ystyried yn llawn difrifoldeb a natur methiannau’r awdurdod i gyflawni ei swyddogaethau addysg, fy mhenderfyniad oedd gwneud gorchymyn i’r awdurdod o dan adran 497A Deddf Addysg 1996. Roedd hynny’n golygu penodi dau gomisiynydd addysg a gymerodd gyfrifoldeb, o 5 Medi ymlaen, am bob un o swyddogaethau addysg Blaenau Gwent yr oedd y weithrediaeth yn gyfrifol amdanynt cyn hynny. Y comisiynwyr addysg yr wyf wedi eu penodi yw Bethan Guilfoyle, cyn prifathro Ysgol Uwchradd Treorci, ac Isobel Garner, cyn prif weithredwr Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam. Rwyf hefyd wedi penodi dau gomisiynydd addysg ymgynghorol: cyn Aelod Cynulliad, Nerys Evans, ac Alan Evans o Brifysgol Caerdydd, arbenigwr mewn cynlluniau llythrennedd. Nid yw’r comisiynwyr addysg ymgynghorol yn gyfrifol am y swyddogaethau addysg. Eu rôl yw rhoi cyngor, cefnogaeth a her i’r comisiynwyr addysg yn eu rôl. Rwy’n hyderus bod y comisiynwyr addysg a’r comisiynwyr addysg ymgynghorol yn meddu ar y cydbwysedd o sgiliau, arbenigedd a phrofiad sydd ei angen i wyrdroi’r sefyllfa ym Mlaenau Gwent.   

I announced previously that in order to bring about real and sustainable recovery, additional support and capacity would be provided by a taskforce of lead education officers, spearheaded by Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council. The taskforce remains in place under the direction of the education commissioners, and I remain grateful to Neath Port Talbot County Council for its continued support. The education commissioners are accountable to the full council, along with its scrutiny and audit committees, as the executive was previously. In carrying out their function, their key focus will be on Estyn’s findings and recommendations, which are that the authority should implement improvement strategies and specific actions to raise skill levels and secure better outcomes for learners at all key stages and in the use and support of service; to develop a clearly communicated strategy to challenge schools more robustly and provide prioritised support of schools according to need; to improve the use of data and management information to identify and challenge underperformance in schools; to evaluate the effectiveness of provision both within the education service and across partnerships serving children and young people; to increase pupil attendance rates in all schools; to work with partners to secure sustainable improvements in the percentage of post-16 learners in full-time education, training or employment; to improve the function of scrutiny arrangements in relation to holding the authority’s executive to account for the performance of local authority services and holding headteachers to account for the performance of individual schools; to improve provision for learners with additional learning needs by establishing clear criteria for allocating support and making robust use of performance data to inform and plan provisions strategically; and to work with the local service board to secure appropriate accountability from all partners.

Cyhoeddais yn flaenorol, er mwyn creu adferiad go iawn a cynaliadwy, byddai cymorth a chapasiti ychwanegol yn cael ei ddarparu gan dasglu o brif swyddogion addysg, wedi ei arwain gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell Nedd. Mae’r tasglu yn parhau i fod yn ei le o dan gyfarwyddyd y comisiynydd addysg, ac rwy’n parhau i fod yn ddiolchgar i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell Nedd am ei gefnogaeth barhaus. Mae’r comisiynwyr addysg yn atebol i’r cyngor llawn, ynghyd â’i bwyllgorau craffu ac archwilio, fel yr oedd y weithrediaeth cyn hynny. O ran cyflawni eu swyddogaeth, bydd eu ffocws allweddol ar ganfyddiadau ac argymhellion Estyn, sef y dylai’r awdurdod weithredu strategaethau gwella a chamau penodol i godi lefelau sgiliau a sicrhau canlyniadau gwell i ddysgwyr ym mhob cyfnod allweddol ac o ran y defnydd o wasanaeth a chefnogaeth iddo; i ddatblygu strategaeth wedi ei chyfathrebu’n glir i herio ysgolion yn fwy cadarn a darparu cefnogaeth wedi ei blaenoriaethu i ysgolion yn ôl angen; i wella’r defnydd a wneir o ddata a gwybodaeth rheoli i nodi a herio tanberfformiad mewn ysgolion; i werthuso pa mor effeithiol yw’r ddarpariaeth o fewn y gwasanaeth addysg ac ar draws partneriaethau sy’n gwasanaethu plant a phobl ifanc; i gynyddu cyfraddau presenoldeb disgyblion ym mhob ysgol; i weithio â phartneriaid i sicrhau gwelliannau cynaliadwy yn y ganran o ddysgwyr ôl-16 mewn addysg llawn amser, hyfforddiant neu gyflogaeth;  i wella swyddogaeth y trefniadau craffu o ran dal gweithrediaeth yr awdurdod i gyfrif am berfformiad gwasanaethau awdurdod lleol a dal prifathrawon i gyfrif am berfformiad ysgolion unigol; i wella’r ddarpariaeth i ddysgwyr gydag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol drwy sefydlu meini prawf clir ar gyfer dyrannu cefnogaeth a gwneud defnydd cadarn o ddata perfformiad i hysbysu a chynllunio darpariaethau yn strategol; a gweithio gyda’r bwrdd gwasanaethau lleol i sicrhau atebolrwydd priodol gan bob partner.

Although it is very early days, the education commissioners have already met all of the authority’s headteachers and other key stakeholders. Their intention is to have a robust recovery plan in place by the end of October 2011. This will be informed by initial work undertaken by Blaenau Gwent and the taskforce led by Neath Port Talbot. This includes a forensic analysis of Blaenau Gwent’s performance over the past three years and a capacity review of its school improvement capability, which is currently under way. In common with other Welsh local authorities, Blaenau Gwent will shortly introduce a national reading test on a voluntary basis. This will provide a baseline to measure progress on improving literacy levels within the authority. From September 2012, the national reading test will become a statutory requirement in Wales. The education commissioners are due to make their first major decision tomorrow regarding the establishment of integrated achievement services across the four councils of Blaenau Gwent, Monmouthshire, Newport and Torfaen. The education commissioners will provide me with regular reports on their work and on progress within the authority. I intend to review the authority’s compliance and the effectiveness and continued necessity of the direction at four-monthly intervals. This will also be informed by Estyn’s re-inspection of the authority in a year’s time. The direction will end on 31 March 2013. The education commissioners and the taskforce will work closely with the local authority and headteachers to ensure that improvements put in place are sustainable in the longer term.

Er ei bod yn ddyddiau cynnar iawn, mae’r comisiynwyr addysg wedi cwrdd yn barod â phob un o’r prifathrawon yn yr awdurdod a rhanddeiliaid allweddol eraill. Eu bwriad yw cael cynllun adfer cadarn yn ei le erbyn diwedd mis Hydref 2011. Bydd hyn yn cael ei hysbysu gan y gwaith cychwynnol a wnaed gan Blaenau Gwent a’r tasglu a arweiniwyd gan Gastell Nedd Port Talbot. Mae hyn yn cynnwys dadansoddiad fforensig o berfformiad Blaenau Gwent dros y tair blynedd diwethaf ac adolygiad capasiti o’i allu i wella ysgolion. Fel y mae awdurdodau lleol eraill yn ei wneud, bydd Blaenau Gwent yn cyflwyno prawf darllen cenedlaethol ar sail wirfoddol cyn bo hir.  Bydd hyn yn rhoi gwaelodlin er mwyn mesur y cynnydd ar wella lefelau llythrennedd yn yr awdurdod. O fis Medi 2012, bydd  y prawf darllen cenedlaethol yn dod yn ofyniad statudol yng Nghymru. Bydd y comisiynwyr addysg yn gwneud eu penderfyniad mawr cyntaf yfory mewn perthynas â sefydlu gwasanaethau cyflawniad integredig ar draws  pedwar cyngor, sef Blaenau Gwent, Mynwy, Casnewydd a Thorfaen. Bydd y comisiynwyr addysg yn rhoi adroddiadau rheolaidd i mi ar eu gwaith ac ar y cynnydd o fewn yr awdurdod. Rwy’n bwriadu adolygu cydymffurfiaeth y cyngor, effeithiolrwydd y cyfarwyddyd a’r angen i barhau gydag ef bob pedwar mis. Bydd hyn hefyd yn cael ei hysbysu gan ail arolygiad Estyn o’r awdurdod ymhen blwyddyn. Daw’r cyfarwyddyd i ben ar 31 Mawrth 2013. Bydd y comisiynwyr addysg a’r tasglu yn cydweithio’n agos â’r awdurdod lleol a phrifathrawon i sicrhau bod y gwelliannau sy’n cael eu rhoi ar waith yn gynaliadwy yn yr hirdymor.

In my earlier statement I advised that my colleague the Minister for Local Government and Communities intended to seek the auditor general’s opinion on concerns about the wider corporate management within the local authority. The auditor general’s report is forthcoming and we will consider any action that might be necessary as a consequence of it.

Yn fy natganiad yn gynharach dywedais fod fy nghydweithiwr y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau yn bwriadu ceisio barn yr archwilydd cyffredinol ar bryderon am reoli corfforaethol ehangach yn yr awdurdod lleol. Mae adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol ar ei ffordd a byddwn yn ystyried unrhyw gamau a allai fod eu hangen o ganlyniad iddo.

Mohammad Asghar: Thank you, Minister, for your statement this afternoon. The Estyn report in May made very grim and shocking reading. Frankly, I remain alarmed as to how such problems were ever allowed to develop in the first place. As you highlighted earlier this year, the level of shortcomings is totally unacceptable. Far too many children and young people in Blaenau Gwent are not fulfilling their potential, and drastic improvements to the authority’s educational services are required to help to change that. A lot needs to be done in Blaenau Gwent to turn the situation around to ensure that children and young people are provided with the educational opportunities that they deserve.

Mohammad Asghar: Diolch, Weinidog, am eich datganiad y prynhawn yma. Roedd darllen adroddiad Estyn ym mis Mai yn brofiad enbyd a brawychus. A dweud y gwir, rwyf dal yn syfrdanu sut y caniatawyd i broblemau o’r fath ddatblygu yn y lle cyntaf. Fel y dywedoch yn gynharach eleni, nid yw nifer y diffygion yn dderbyniol. Nid yw llawer gormod o blant a phobl ifanc ym Mlaenau Gwent yn cyflawni eu potensial, ac mae gofyn gwneud gwelliannau eithafol i wasanaethau addysgol yr awdurdod i helpu i newid hynny. Mae angen gwneud llawer ym Mlaenau Gwent i wyrdroi’r sefyllfa er mwyn sicrhau fod plant a phobl ifanc yn cael y cyfleoedd addysgol maent yn eu haeddu. 

I welcome your decision to update Members today and also the appointment of the commissioners. They are to report to you on a four-monthly basis. As the direction will end by March 2013, you will probably have just four reports from them. I humbly suggest to you, Minister, that you ask them to give you a report every three months. You would then end up with six reports and would probably have a better idea, as quickly as possible, of what is happening in Blaenau Gwent. What efforts were made, prior to the appointment of these commissioners, to work with the local authorities around Blaenau Gwent who achieved good results in their Estyn inspections? Was any professional advice ever obtained by education services in Blaenau Gwent from those local authority officials, or was any such move made by Blaenau Gwent education services to seek out that expertise next door, which could have saved you some money? How will you ensure that parents and pupils in Blaenau Gwent are kept up-to-date with developments? That is also very important.

Rwy’n croesawu eich penderfyniad i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Aelodau heddiw a phenodi’r comisiynwyr hefyd. Byddant yn adrodd yn ôl i chi bob pedwar mis. Gan y bydd y cyfarwyddyd yn dod i ben erbyn mis Mawrth 2013, mae’n debyg mai dim ond pedwar adroddiad a gewch chi ganddynt. Awgrymaf yn wylaidd eich bod chi, Weinidog, yn gofyn iddynt roi adroddiad i chi bob tri mis. Byddai gennych wedyn chwech adroddiad ac mae’n debyg y byddai gennych well syniad, mor  gyflym â phosibl, o beth sy’n digwydd  ym Mlaenau Gwent. Pa ymdrechion a wnaed, cyn penodi’r comisiynwyr  hyn, i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol cyfagos i Flaenau Gwent a gafodd ganlyniadau da yn eu harolygiadau Estyn? A gafwyd unrhyw gyngor proffesiynol gan wasanaethau addysg ym Mlaenau Gwent gan y swyddogion awdurdod lleol hynny, neu a wnaed ymdrech o’r fath gan wasanaethau addysg Blaenau Gwent i geisio cael yr arbenigedd hwnnw drws nesaf, a fyddai wedi arbed rhywfaint o arian i chi? Sut y byddwch yn sicrhau fod rhieni a disgyblion ym Mlaenau Gwent yn cael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf? Mae hynny’n bwysig iawn hefyd.

In your statement last year, Minister, you said that Estyn will re-inspect Blaenau Gwent in a year’s time. You also said that the actions that you are taking are intended to turn the situation around within one school year. Can you therefore give an indication, Minister, as to what level of improvements you expect to see by 2013? Should any progress reports suggest that big improvements are unlikely within one school year, what actions will you take?

Yn eich datganiad y llynedd, Weinidog, dywedoch y bydd Estyn yn arolygu Blaenau Gwent eto mewn blwyddyn. Dywedoch hefyd mai bwriad y camau rydych yn eu cymryd yw gwyrdroi’r sefyllfa o fewn un flwyddyn ysgol. A allwch chi felly roi syniad, Weinidog, am y lefel o welliannau rydych yn disgwyl eu gweld erbyn 2013? Pe bai unrhyw adroddiadau ar gynnydd yn awgrymu nad yw’n debyg y bydd gwelliannau mawr o fewn un flwyddyn ysgol, pa gamau wnewch chi eu cymryd?

Finally, Estyn noted that the Blaenau Gwent authority has a track record of slow and incomplete responses to recommendations made by inspectors. The fact that the authority was allowed to build up such a track record suggests that Estyn could be more forceful in demanding complete responses. Has the Minister discussed this with the education inspectorate? If the inspectorate struggled to receive appropriate information from the authority, what hope did parents and pupils have of knowing what was going on? Are you concerned about that, Minister? You mention children, parents and teachers in your report, but there is nothing in your report about school governors. Governors are the pillars of a school; they provide guidance on the running and the achievements of a school. In my book, they are responsible for a school’s achievements. In addition, it is not just about the students, teachers and governors; the socio-economic problems in the area should also be considered, such as housing, health and so on, as should whether parents are doing the job that they should, whether teachers are fulfilling their obligations fully and whether all the facilities are available to Blaenau Gwent schools.

Yn olaf, nododd Estyn fod gan Blaenau Gwent hanes o ymateb yn araf ac yn anghyflawn i argymhellion a wnaed gan arolygwyr. Mae’r ffaith fod yr awdurdod wedi ei ganiatáu i ddatblygu hanes o’r fath yn awgrymu y gallai Estyn fod yn fwy penderfynol wrth alw am ymatebion llawn. A yw’r Gweinidog wedi trafod hyn gyda’r arolygiaeth addysg? Os cafodd yr arolygiaeth drafferth cael gwybodaeth briodol gan yr awdurdod, pa obaith oedd gan rieni a disgyblion o wybod beth oedd yn digwydd? A ydych yn pryderu am hynny, Weinidog? Sonioch am blant, rhieni ac athrawon yn eich adroddiad, ond nid oes sôn yn eich adroddiad am lywodraethwyr ysgol. Pileri’r ysgol yw llywodraethwyr; nhw sy’n rhoi arweiniad ar redeg yr ysgol a’i chyflawniadau. Yn fy nhyb i, maent yn gyfrifol am yr hyn mae ysgol yn ei chyflawni. Ar ben hynny, nid mater o’r myfyrwyr, athrawon a llywodraethwyr yn unig yw hi; dylid ystyried y problemau cymdeithasol-economaidd yn yr ardal hefyd, fel tai, iechyd, ac yn y blaen, fel y dylai pa un a yw rhieni yn gwneud y gwaith y dylent, a yw athrawon yn cyflawni eu dyletswyddau yn llawn ac a yw’r holl gyfleusterau ar gael i ysgolion Blaenau Gwent. 

3.45 p.m.

You mentioned earlier in your statement that absenteeism is definitely not acceptable. If pupils are not in school, you cannot make a report that justifies what you have already written. I hope that you learn the lesson and do something better and bring those schools up to standard, such as in Newport, Monmouthshire and other neighbouring counties.

Soniasoch yn gynharach yn eich datganiad nad yw absenoliaeth yn dderbyniol o gwbl. Os nad yw disgyblion yn yr ysgol, ni allwch wneud adroddiad sy’n cyfiawnhau’r hyn yr ydych eisoes wedi ei ysgrifennu. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y byddwch yn dysgu’r wers a gwneud rhywbeth gwell a sicrhau bod yr ysgolion hynny yn cyrraedd y safon, megis yng Nghasnewydd, sir Fynwy a siroedd cyfagos eraill.

Leighton Andrews: Intervention by Government in the affairs of a local authority is a serious matter, and we do not do that in any way without due consideration. Therefore, I welcome the Member’s support for the appointment of the commissioners and for the update today.

Leighton Andrews: Mater difrifol yw ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth ym materion awdurdod lleol, ac nid ydym yn gwneud hynny mewn unrhyw ffordd heb yr ystyriaeth ddyledus. Felly, yr wyf yn croesawu cefnogaeth yr Aelod o ran penodiad y comisiynwyr ac am y diweddariad heddiw.

We are clear about the extent of the challenges facing Blaenau Gwent, and that was set out in the Estyn report. Blaenau Gwent has previously had support from education officials within Newport City Council, and now that education consortia have been established, we will be able to draw on support from neighbouring authorities in a more co-ordinated fashion, and as I said, the education commissioners are looking at approving an achievement service tomorrow for the four authorities that are currently working together.

Yr ydym yn glir ynghylch hyd a lled yr heriau sy’n wynebu Blaenau Gwent, a chafodd hynny ei nodi yn adroddiad Estyn. Mae Blaenau Gwent eisoes wedi cael cefnogaeth gan swyddogion addysg yng Nghyngor Dinas Casnewydd ac o ganlyniad i sefydlu’r consortia addysg, byddwn yn gallu manteisio ar gymorth yr awdurdodau cyfagos mewn modd mwy cydgysylltiedig, ac fel y dywedais, mae’r comisiynwyr addysg yn ystyried cymeradwyo gwasanaeth gyflawniad yfory ar gyfer y pedwar awdurdod sydd ar hyn o bryd yn cydweithio.

I have to pick the Member up on one or two of the points that he made. I did not say in the statement that the commissioners would report to me on a four-monthly basis. I said that they would report to me regularly. I said that I would look every four months at whether the direction was appropriate. I expect the commissioners to act in an open and transparent way. As I said, they have already met all the headteachers and other stakeholders, and I think that the input that they give has been welcomed and it will be valuable.

Mae’n rhaid i mi gywiro’r Aelod ar un neu ddau o’r pwyntiau a wnaeth. Ni ddywedais yn y datganiad y byddai comisiynwyr yn adrodd i mi bob pedwar mis. Dywedais y byddant yn adrodd i mi yn rheolaidd. Dywedais y byddwn yn edrych bob pedwar mis i weld a yw’r cyfarwyddyd yn briodol. Rwy’n disgwyl i’r comisiynwyr weithredu mewn ffordd agored a thryloyw. Fel y dywedais, maent eisoes wedi cwrdd â’r holl benaethiaid a rhanddeiliaid eraill, a chredaf fod y cyfraniad y maent yn ei roi wedi cael ei groesawu, a bydd yn werthfawr.

What we have seen from Estyn during the past year has been the implementation of their new common inspection framework, which has clearly been challenging for many local authorities, not only Blaenau Gwent. I certainly agree with him that governors have a role in the improvement of performance standards at local school level and that is why I have made it clear that no school will pass an Estyn inspection report unless its school governing body has discussed the data on that school and its performance. I think that people are clear about that. We are setting out a serious set of steps to overcome the position in Blaenau Gwent.

Yr hyn yr ydym wedi’i weld gan Estyn yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yw gweithrediad eu fframwaith arolygu cyffredin newydd, sydd, yn amlwg, wedi bod yn heriol i lawer o awdurdodau lleol, nid yn unig ym Mlaenau Gwent. Yr wyf yn sicr yn cytuno ag ef bod rôl i lywodraethwyr o ran gwella safonau perfformiad ar lefel ysgol leol, a dyna pam yr wyf wedi ei wneud yn glir na fydd ysgol yn pasio adroddiad arolygu Estyn oni bai bod corff llywodraethu’r ysgol wedi trafod y data ar yr ysgol honno a’i pherfformiad. Rwy’n credu bod pobl yn glir ynghylch hynny. Rydym yn gosod allan cyfres ddifrifol o gamau i oresgyn y sefyllfa ym Mlaenau Gwent.

Simon Thomas: Hoffwn ddiolch i’r Gweinidog am roi diweddariad gerbron y Senedd. Yr wyf yn gwerthfawrogi hynny. Nid wyf am ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedwyd—mae hynny yn y Cofnod. Mae’r Gweinidog yn gwybod ein bod yn cefnogi’r camau a gymerwyd hyd yma i wella darpariaeth addysg ym Mlaenau Gwent.

Simon Thomas: I would thank the Minister for bringing this update to the Senedd. I appreciate that. I do not want to rehearse what has already been said—that is in the Record. The Minister knows that we support the steps taken so far to improve education provision in Blaenau Gwent.

Hoffwn ofyn ychydig o gwestiynau penodol iddo. Yr wyf am eglurder ynglŷn â’r cyfarwyddyd. Mae’n sôn yn yr adroddiad, ac mae newydd ailadrodd, y bydd yn adolygu’r cyfarwyddyd hwn bob pedwar mis. A yw hynny’n golygu, os oes gwelliant sylweddol ym Mlaenau Gwent, y bydd yn ystyried gollwng y cyfarwyddyd cyn pen yr amser? Fel y gŵyr, yn ystod yr haf, cafwyd ychydig o welliant yng nghanlyniadau disgyblion Blaenau Gwent. Felly, o leiaf mae’r awdurdod ar y trywydd cywir. Hoffwn eglurder ar hynny.

I would ask him a few specific questions. I would like clarity with regard to the direction given. He mentions in the report, and has just reiterated, that he will review the direction every four months. Does that mean, if there is significant improvement in Blaenau Gwent, that he will consider dropping the direction before the end date? As he knows, during the summer, we saw some improvement in the results attained by pupils in Blaenau Gwent. So, at least the authority is moving in the right direction. I would like some clarity about that.

Yn ail, soniodd y Gweinidog am yr archwilydd cyffredinol. Mae hyn yn codi cwestiwn sydd wedi bod yn poeni nifer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Mae nifer o awdurdodau a gafodd adroddiad derbyniol gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru yn y gorffennol bellach yn wynebu cyfle i adolygu hynny—yr wyf yn falch iawn bod y Gweinidog dros lywodraeth leol yn ei le. A oes ffydd gan y Gweinidog fod y swyddfa archwilio a’r archwilydd cyffredinol yn ymdrin â’r archwiliadau hyn yn y ffordd gywir, oherwydd fe gawsom adlais o’r un problemau yn y diffyg llywodraethu corfforaethol yn sir Benfro?

Secondly, the Minister mentioned the auditor general. This raises a question that has been of concern to several Assembly Members. Several of the authorities that had a satisfactory report from the Wales Audit Office now face an opportunity to review that—I am glad to see that the Minister for local government is in his seat. Does the Minister have confidence that the audit office and the auditor general are approaching these audits in the right way, because we had an echo of the same problems in the lack of corporate governance in Pembrokeshire?

Yn olaf, heb enwi neb, a yw hon yn broses y mae’n rhagweld y bydd yn rhaid ei gweithredu mewn unrhyw awdurdod arall yng Nghymru? Mae’n gwybod bod Estyn yn prysuro ei archwiliadau newydd o awdurdodau addysg. Mae’n siŵr ei fod yn dechrau gweld adborth y broses honno. A yw hwn yn batrwm y bydd yn rhaid i ni ei weld eto mewn mannau eraill o Gymru, neu a yw’n ffyddiog y gallwn gydweithio â’r awdurdodau i wneud yr hyn y mae pob un yn y Senedd hon am ei weld, sef gwella sgiliau sylfaenol plant? 

Finally, without naming anyone, does he foresee this process having to be implemented in any other authority in Wales? He knows that Estyn is hastening its new inspections of education authorities. I am sure that he is starting to get feedback from that process. Is this a pattern that we will have to see repeated elsewhere in Wales, or is he confident that we will be able to collaborate with the authorities to do what everyone in the Senedd wants to see, namely an improvement in children’s basic skills?

Leighton Andrews: I thank the Member for his support for the steps that we have taken to turn around the education system in Blaenau Gwent. I am not going to prejudge the work of the commissioners. I am not, therefore, going to make any statement at this stage about whether there may be a possibility of lifting the direction earlier. I want to see the work being driven through, and I want to hear from the commissioners about the progress that they are making. As to whether there have been improvements to the situation in Blaenau Gwent since Estyn reported, I am not certain that I can confirm what the Member said. The exam performance results in Blaenau Gwent that he was talking about relate to exams that were taken before Estyn reported to us. At present, I do not think that there is anything that would lead me to want to change the approach that we have adopted.

Leighton Andrews: Diolch i’r Aelod am ei gefnogaeth ar gyfer y camau yr ydym wedi’u cymryd i wella’r system addysg ym Mlaenau Gwent. Nid wyf am ragfarnu gwaith y comisiynwyr. Nid wyf, felly, yn mynd i wneud unrhyw ddatganiad ar hyn o bryd ynghylch a oes posibilrwydd o godi’r cyfarwyddyd yn gynharach. Yr wyf am weld y gwaith sy’n cael ei yrru drwodd, ac yr wyf am glywed gan y comisiynwyr ynglŷn â’r cynnydd y maent yn ei wneud. O ran y cwestiwn ynghylch a welwyd gwelliannau i’r sefyllfa ym Mlaenau Gwent ers i Estyn adrodd, nid wyf yn sicr y gallaf gadarnhau’r hyn a ddywedodd yr Aelod. Roedd y canlyniadau perfformiad mewn arholiadau o Flaenau Gwent y crybwyllodd yn ymwneud ag arholiadau a gymerwyd cyn i Estyn adrodd i ni. Ar hyn o bryd, nid wyf yn meddwl y byddai unrhyw beth yn fy mherswadio i newid y dull yr ydym wedi’i fabwysiadu.

I met the Auditor General for Wales recently, and among the subjects that we discussed was the pattern of reports from the different inspectorates and how they feed into his work. There is an issue there to do with future co-ordination. The Member raised the issue of the Pembrokeshire situation. We had a full statement on that from my colleague the Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services just last week. I have been involved with her over the summer in helping to fashion the Welsh Government’s response to that situation. Estyn is undertaking reports on different local authorities. I hope that we do not find ourselves in the same situation in other authorities as we have found ourselves in Blaenau Gwent, but time will tell.

Cyfarfûm ag Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru yn ddiweddar, ac ymhlith y pynciau y bu inni eu trafod oedd patrwm adroddiadau gan y gwahanol arolygiaethau a sut maent yn bwydo i mewn i’w waith. Mae mater yno yn ymwneud â chydlynu yn y dyfodol. Cododd yr Aelod y sefyllfa yn Sir Benfro. Cawsom ddatganiad lawn ar hynny gan fy nghydweithiwr y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yr wythnos diwethaf. Yr wyf wedi bod yn gweithio â hi dros yr haf i helpu gydag ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru at y sefyllfa honno. Mae Estyn yn llunio adroddiadau ar wahanol awdurdodau lleol. Yr wyf yn gobeithio na fyddwn yn yr un sefyllfa mewn awdurdodau eraill ag yr ydym wedi ei wynebu ym Mlaenau Gwent, ond amser a ddengys.

Aled Roberts: Yr wyf innau yn barod iawn i gefnogi’r Gweinidog, ac fe wneuthum hynny ym mis Gorffennaf parthed ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth. Pan fydd sefyllfa ddifrifol yn codi yn un o’n cynghorau lleol, mae’n bwysig bod y Cynulliad yn rhoi’r gefnogaeth honno i’r Gweinidog. Yr wyf hefyd yn ategu llawer o’r hyn a ddywedodd Simon Thomas ynglŷn â sefyllfaoedd sy’n codi pan fo adroddiadau gan yr archwilydd cyffredinol yn dangos bod rheolaeth gorfforaethol y cynghorau yn iawn, ond mae adroddiadau’n dod atom yn y Cynulliad wedi hynny yn creu argraff nad yw pethau’n iawn ar y lefel gorfforaethol. 

Aled Roberts: I, too, am fully prepared to support the Minister, as I did in July with regard to the Government’s intervention. When a serious situation arises in one of our local councils, it is important that the Assembly gives that support to the Minister. I also endorse much of what Simon Thomas said about situations arising when reports by the auditor general show that corporate governance in the councils is okay, only for reports to reach the Assembly after that that create the impression that things are not as they should be on the corporate level.

Deallaf yn union yr hyn y mae Simon yn ei ddweud o ran gwelliant ym Mlaenau Gwent, os oes gwelliant wedi bod. Fodd bynnag, cofiaf i’r Gweinidog ddweud ym mis Gorffennaf fod y problemau ym Mlaenau Gwent wedi bodoli ers blynyddoedd, os nad degawdau. Yr hyn sy’n fy mhoeni yw, ar ganol y llwybr i’r gwelliant yr ydym yn gobeithio ei weld ym Mlaenau Gwent, mae etholiadau lleol. Credaf mai rhan o’r broblem ym Mlaenau Gwent, fel cynghorau eraill, yw’r ffaith nad y swyddogion yn unig sydd ar fai, ond bod cynghorwyr wedi colli’r cyfle ers blynyddoedd i herio swyddogion lle maent yn methu. Yr wyf yn dweud hynny oherwydd fy mod wedi bod yn gynghorydd.

I understand exactly what Simon says about improvement in Blaenau Gwent, if there has been improvement. However, I recall the Minister saying in July that the problems in Blaenau Gwent have existed for years, if not decades. What worries me is, in the middle of the road to the improvement that we hope to see in Blaenau Gwent, there are local elections. I believe that part of the problem in Blaenau Gwent, as with other councils, is the fact that it is not only the officials who are to blame, but that councillors have for years missed opportunities to challenge officials where they are failing. I say that because I have been a councillor myself.

O gofio bod gwaith adeiladu gyda’r cynghorwyr wedi digwydd o ran rheolaeth ddemocrataidd, beth fydd yn digwydd os bydd y comisiynwyr yn dod yn ôl ar ôl yr etholiadau lleol, os oes newid yn natur y cyngor, ac yn dweud ei fod yn rhy fuan iddynt roi adroddiad cadarnhaol ar agwedd cynghorwyr y cyngor newydd?

Bearing in mind the building work that has happened with councillors on democratic governance, what will happen if the commissioners come back after the local elections, if there is a change in the nature of the council, and they say that it is too soon for them to provide a positive report on the attitude of councillors in the new council?

Leighton Andrews: I thank the Member for his support for the actions that we have taken. The point that he made about democracy and the way in which local councillors scrutinise the performance of their own authority will be widely understood here. It is something that the Minister for Local Government and Communities takes seriously. As I said in my statement, we will wait for the report before commenting on the issue of the auditor general’s engagement in wider corporate governance. Regarding the current situation in Blaenau Gwent, my direction runs beyond the period of next year’s local elections. The seriousness with which we take this issue will be clear to any incoming council administration, as will our continuing intention to engage with it.

Leighton Andrews: Diolch i’r Aelod am ei gefnogaeth o ran y camau yr ydym wedi’u cymryd. Caiff y pwynt a wnaeth am ddemocratiaeth a’r ffordd y mae cynghorwyr lleol yn craffu ar berfformiad eu hawdurdod ei ddeall gan bawb yma. Mae’n rhywbeth y mae’r Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau yn ei gymryd o ddifrif. Fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, arhoswn am yr adroddiad cyn gwneud sylwadau ar ymgysylltiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol o ran llywodraethu corfforaethol ehangach. O ran y sefyllfa bresennol ym Mlaenau Gwent, mae fy nghyfarwyddyd yn rhedeg tu hwnt i’r etholiadau lleol y flwyddyn nesaf. Bydd unrhyw weinyddiaeth newydd unrhyw gyngor yn ymwybodol o ba mor ddifrifol rydym yn ystyried y mater hwn, yn ogystal â’n bwriad i barhau i ymgysylltu yn ei gylch.

Jocelyn Davies: Minister, I, too, fully support your actions to improve the educational outcomes for the children of Blaenau Gwent. I am sure that you would agree that much hinges on the robustness of the action plan. The Estyn report says that, following its publication, the authority had 50 days to produce its action plan. Can you tell us why that was reduced to 10 days? Are you confident that that is sufficient time to produce an effective plan to turn around the deep-seated and long-standing problems of Blaenau Gwent that are outlined in the report, such as the unsatisfactory leadership by successive administrations and the slow and incomplete response to previous recommendations by Estyn?

Jocelyn Davies: Weinidog, yr wyf hefyd yn cefnogi yn llwyr eich dull o weithredu i wella canlyniadau addysgol ar gyfer plant Blaenau Gwent. Yr wyf yn siŵr y byddech yn cytuno bod llawer yn dibynnu ar gadernid y cynllun gweithredu. Mae adroddiad Estyn yn dweud, yn dilyn ei gyhoeddiad, yr oedd gan yr awdurdod 50 diwrnod i gynhyrchu ei gynllun gweithredu. A allwch ddweud wrthym pam gafodd hynny ei ostwng i 10 diwrnod? A ydych yn ffyddiog bod hynny’n ddigon o amser i lunio cynllun effeithiol i oresgyn y problemau dwfn a hirsefydlog ym Mlaenau Gwent a amlinellwyd yn yr adroddiad, megis arweinyddiaeth anfoddhaol gan sawl weinyddiaeth a’r ymateb araf ac anghyflawn i argymhellion blaenorol Estyn?

Leighton Andrews: I thank the Member for her support for the actions that we have taken. I took the view that we needed to move swiftly: I was not prepared to wait for the local authority to respond within the 50 days before acting. We took the decision to move ahead swiftly and to make it clear to Blaenau Gwent that we expected it to respond quickly, and it has now responded. Clearly, it is the education commissioners who are important now. I have great confidence in their ability to take the situation on, and their involvement has been well received locally. I expect to receive regular reports from them, and I expect Blaenau Gwent’s officers to comply with them and with the task force that we have put in from Neath Port Talbot council. I hope that, on the basis of those actions, we will see a transformation of the situation in Blaenau Gwent.

Leighton Andrews: Diolch i’r Aelod am ei chefnogaeth i’r camau yr ydym wedi’u cymryd. Roeddwn i o’r farn bod angen inni weithredu’n gyflym: nid oeddwn yn barod i aros i’r awdurdod lleol ymateb o fewn y 50 diwrnod cyn gweithredu. Penderfynasom symud ymlaen yn gyflym ac i’w wneud yn glir i Flaenau Gwent ein bod yn disgwyl iddo ymateb yn gyflym, ac mae bellach wedi ymateb. Yn amlwg, y comisiynwyr addysg sy’n bwysig yn awr. Mae gennyf hyder mawr yn eu gallu i ymgymryd â’r sefyllfa, ac mae eu cyfraniad wedi cael derbyniad da yn lleol. Yr wyf yn disgwyl adroddiadau rheolaidd oddi wrthynt, ac yr wyf yn disgwyl i swyddogion Blaenau Gwent gydymffurfio â hwy a gyda’r tasglu yr ydym wedi’i rhoi i mewn o gyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot. Yr wyf yn gobeithio, ar sail y camau hynny, y byddwn yn gweld trawsnewid yn y sefyllfa ym Mlaenau Gwent.

Datganiad: Cydraddoldebau
Statement: Equalities

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): The Welsh Government is committed to ensuring that equality, inclusion and human rights are mainstreamed into policy making and delivery, and to do so, we must better understand the impacts of our decisions on the people of Wales. Our programme for government, which the First Minister has published today, continues our commitment to social justice and equality of opportunity for all.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod cydraddoldeb, cynhwysiant a hawliau dynol yn cael eu prif ffrydio o ran llunio polisi a darparu, ac i wneud hynny, mae’n rhaid i ni ddeall yn well effeithiau ein penderfyniadau ar bobl Cymru. Mae ein rhaglen llywodraethu, sydd wedi ei chyhoeddi gan y Prif Weinidog heddiw, yn parhau ein hymrwymiad i gyfiawnder cymdeithasol a chyfle cyfartal i bawb.

I want to take this opportunity to inform Members, as the Minister responsible for equality, of my priority to engage with, involve and consult with representative groups and stakeholders in order to influence effectively all aspects of equality in Wales. We have a range of arrangements in place. This Government is working hard to develop long-term positive change to eliminate unlawful racial and religious discrimination and to promote race equality and good race relations. To help us to achieve this, I have convened a race forum, which will meet for the first time in February next year. The Wales race forum will provide expert support and advice to the Welsh Government to understand the key issues and barriers in black and minority ethnic communities. The faith communities forum will continue to facilitate dialogue between the Welsh Government and the major faith communities on matters that affect economic, social and cultural life in Wales. The migrants forum is a multi-agency group of key representatives from external organisations whose work has an impact on migrants. The forum’s approach is to support the successful inclusion of migrants, their families and their communities in all aspects of Welsh society.

Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i roi gwybod i Aelodau, fel y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am gydraddoldeb, am fy mlaenoriaeth i ymgysylltu, cynnwys ac ymgynghori â grwpiau cynrychiadol a rhanddeiliaid er mwyn dylanwadu yn effeithiol ar bob agwedd ar gydraddoldeb yng Nghymru. Mae gennym amrywiaeth o drefniadau ar waith. Mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn gweithio’n galed i ddatblygu newid cadarnhaol hirdymor i ddileu gwahaniaethu hiliol a chrefyddol anghyfreithlon ac i hybu cydraddoldeb hiliol a chysylltiadau hiliol da. Er mwyn ein helpu i gyflawni hyn, yr wyf wedi cynnull fforwm hil, a fydd yn cyfarfod am y tro cyntaf fis Chwefror nesaf. Bydd fforwm hil Cymru yn darparu cymorth a chyngor arbenigol i Lywodraeth Cymru i ddeall y materion a’r rhwystrau allweddol yng nghymunedau pobl dduon a lleiafrifoedd ethnig. Bydd y fforwm cymunedau ffydd yn parhau i hwyluso deialog rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a’r prif gymunedau ffydd ar faterion sy’n effeithio ar fywyd economaidd, cymdeithasol a diwylliannol yng Nghymru. Mae’r fforwm ymfudwyr yn grŵp amlasiantaethol o gynrychiolwyr allweddol o sefydliadau allanol y mae eu gwaith yn cael effaith ar ymfudwyr. Ymagwedd y fforwm yw cefnogi cynhwysiant llwyddiannus ymfudwyr, eu teuluoedd a’u cymunedau ym mhob agwedd ar gymdeithas yng Nghymru.

In addition, I chair the disability equality advisory group, which provides a forum for disabled people and their representative organisations to engage with and influence us as we develop policies and projects. The group has a range of stakeholders, and it will help us to continue to take forward co-ordinated actions to improve equality of opportunity for disabled people in Wales.

Yn ogystal, yr wyf yn cadeirio’r grŵp ymgynghorol cydraddoldeb i bobl anabl, sy’n darparu fforwm i bobl anabl a sefydliadau sy’n eu cynrychioli i ymgysylltu â ni a’n dylanwadu wrth i ni ddatblygu polisïau a phrosiectau. Mae gan y grŵp amryw randdeiliaid, a bydd yn ein helpu i barhau i gymryd camau cydlynol tuag at wella cyfle cyfartal i bobl anabl yng Nghymru.

I will open a Welsh Government event on 3 October, entitled Hard to Engage!?. There will be over 100 attendees from all over Wales. The event will involve taking a fresh look at the way in which we communicate with and relate to our communities. We have an obligation to ensure that we are working with, and for, our communities throughout Wales, which can be achieved only by reaching out and engaging directly.

Byddaf yn agor digwyddiad Llywodraeth Cymru ar 3 Hydref, o’r enw Anodd Ymgysylltu!?. Bydd mwy na 100 o bobl o bob rhan o Gymru yno. Bydd y digwyddiad yn cynnwys cymryd golwg o’r newydd ar y ffordd yr ydym yn cyfathrebu â’n cymunedau ac yn ymwneud â nhw. Mae gennym ddyletswydd i sicrhau ein bod yn gweithio gyda’n cymunedau ledled Cymru ac ar eu cyfer, a gellir cyflawni hyn dim ond drwy estyn allan ac ymgysylltu’n uniongyrchol.

I will also be launching ‘Travelling to a Better Future’, a Gypsy and Traveller framework for action. It is the first policy document of its kind to be published in the UK. We consulted widely with the Gypsy and Traveller community as an integral part of our preparation of the draft framework, and included an extended consultation period to take account of the traditional travelling periods of the community.

Byddaf hefyd yn lansio ‘Teithio i Ddyfodol Gwell’, Sipsiwn a Theithwyr, fframwaith ar gyfer gweithredu. Dyma’r ddogfen bolisi cyntaf o’i fath i gael ei chyhoeddi yn y DU. Rydym yn ymgynghori’n eang â’r gymuned Sipsiwn a Theithwyr fel rhan annatod o’n gwaith o baratoi’r fframwaith drafft, ac yn cynnwys cyfnod ymgynghori estynedig i gymryd i ystyriaeth cyfnodau teithio traddodiadol y gymuned.

4.00 p.m.

I have provided funding for the establishment of an all-Wales women’s network. There is no doubt that women face challenging years ahead. We are, of course, already aware of the many issues facing women throughout the UK and Wales today. Budget cuts have hit many women hard, and, although we have made progress, gender inequalities still exist and could deepen without effective Government action. This network will ensure that women’s voices are reaching policy makers and that women’s voices, views, needs and the issues they face in Wales are reflected in policy and decision making. The network will enhance the role and influence of women in the life of Welsh society, to empower individuals to achieve change and promote equality of opportunity.

Rwyf wedi darparu cyllid er mwyn sefydlu rhwydwaith menywod Cymru gyfan. Nid oes amheuaeth fod menywod yn wynebu heriau yn y blynyddoedd nesaf. Rydym, wrth gwrs, yn gwybod yn barod am nifer o faterion y mae menywod ar draws y DU a Chymru yn eu hwynebu heddiw. Mae toriadau i’r gyllideb wedi cael ergyd drom ar lawer o fenywod, ac er ein bod wedi gwneud cynnydd, mae anghydraddoldebau rhywiol yn dal i fodoli ac fe allai waethygu heb gamau effeithiol gan y Llywodraeth. Bydd y rhwydwaith hwn yn sicrhau bod llais menywod yn cyrraedd y rhai sy’n gwneud polisi a bod lleisiau, safbwyntiau, anghenion a’r problemau maent yn eu hwynebu yng Nghymru yn cael eu hadlewyrchu pan wneir polisïau a phenderfyniadau. Bydd y rhwydwaith yn ehangu rôl a dylanwad menywod ym mywyd cymdeithas Cymru, er mwyn grymuso unigolion i gyflawni newid a hybu cyfle cyfartal.

I am delighted to announce that I will officially launch the all Wales women’s network at a national event in north Wales on 28 November. I am looking forward to engaging with women at this event and fulfilling our commitment to ensuring that women’s views inform Welsh Government policy from the outset.

Rwy’n falch iawn o gyhoeddi y byddaf yn lansio’r rhwydwaith menywod Cymru gyfan yn swyddogol mewn digwyddiad cenedlaethol yng ngogledd Cymru ar 28 Hydref. Rwy’n edrych ymlaen at ymgysylltu gyda menywod yn y digwyddiad hwn a chyflawni ein hymrwymiad i sicrhau bod safbwyntiau menywod yn dylanwadu ar bolisi Llywodraeth Cymru o’r cychwyn cyntaf.

At the heart of the Wales-specific equality duties is the provision for engagement with people affected by the decisions taken by public authorities. This provision makes the specific duties in Wales different to those in other parts of the UK, and I am proud of this fundamental principle. The focus of the Wales-specific equality duties is outcome-focused equality objectives. If these are to be meaningful, credible evidence needs to be gathered and analysed to identify where action needs to be focused. The Welsh Government proposes that Welsh public bodies gather evidence, engage with and involve and consult people and, ultimately, develop objectives that will make a difference to people’s lives. These objectives will be published by April 2012. From these objectives, citizens will be left in no doubt what public bodies in Wales are going to be doing to work towards eliminating discrimination and promoting equality and good relations.

Wrth wraidd y dyletswyddau cydraddoldeb sy’n benodol i Gymru yw’r ddarpariaeth ar gyfer ymgysylltu â phobl yr effeithir arnynt gan benderfyniadau a wneir gan awdurdodau cyhoeddus. Mae’r ddarpariaeth hon yn peri bod y dyletswyddau penodol yng Nghymru yn wahanol i rai yn rhannau eraill o’r DU, ac rwy’n falch o’r egwyddor sylfaenol hwn. Canolbwynt y dyletswyddau cydraddoldeb sy’n benodol i Gymru yw amcanion cydraddoldeb sy’n canolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau. Os yw’r rhain am fod ag ystyr iddynt, mae angen casglu a dadansoddi tystiolaeth gredadwy er mwyn nodi lle mae  angen canolbwyntio’r gweithredu. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnig bod cyrff cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn casglu tystiolaeth, ymgysylltu, cynnwys ac ymgynghori â phobl ac, yn y pen draw, datblygu amcanion a fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i fywydau pobl. Caiff yr amcanion hyn eu cyhoeddi erbyn mis Ebrill 2012. Yn dilyn yr amcanion hyn, ni fydd amheuaeth gan ddinasyddion beth fydd cyrff cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn ei wneud i weithio tuag at ddileu gwahaniaethu a hybu cydraddoldeb a pherthnasau da.

The UK Government issued a consultation, ‘Building a fairer Britain: Reform of the Equality and Human Rights Commission’ on 22 March 2011. A decision was taken to retain the commission but to reform it substantially. The UK Government consultation is now closed and Members were copied in to my response of 29 June, highlighting that, here in Wales, we enjoy a very effective working relationship with the Wales directorate of the Equality and Human Rights Commission and that its work is very much valued by Welsh Ministers. Indeed, its work is similarly valued in Scotland.

Bu i Lywodraeth y DU gyhoeddi ymgynghoriad, ‘Adeiladu Prydain decach: Diwygio’r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol’ ar 22 Mawrth 2011. Penderfynwyd cadw’r comisiwn ond i’w  ddiwygio’n sylweddol. Mae ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth y DU wedi cau bellach a chafodd Aelodau gopi o fy ymateb ar 29 Mehefin, a oedd yn tanlinellu ein bod ni yng Nghymru yn meddu ar berthynas waith effeithiol iawn gyda chyfarwyddiaeth Cymru o’r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol a bod Gweinidogion Cymru yn gweld gwerth sylweddol yn ei waith. Yn wir, gwelir gwerth tebyg yn ei waith yn yr Alban. 

I have major concerns, as do stakeholders in Wales, about the potential effectiveness of the proposed new equality and human rights helpline. I await the publication of the UK-wide helpline specification with interest. On 22 June, in a Welsh Government event, Welsh stakeholders expressed a consistent message to the UK Government that the commission’s office in Wales has earned itself a place in the normal fabric of how things are done here and that its proactive work in partnership with other organisations closely complements its regulatory functions. We are still awaiting the outcome of the UK Government consultation.

Mae gen i bryderon mawr, fel sydd gan randdeiliaid eraill yng Nghymru, am ba mor effeithiol fydd y llinell gymorth cydraddoldeb a hawliau dynol newydd. Rwy’n aros gyda diddordeb i weld manyleb y llinell gymorth ar draws y DU pan gaiff ei gyhoeddi. Ar 22 Mehefin, mewn digwyddiad Llywodraeth Cymru, dywedodd rhanddeiliaid o Gymru’n gyson bod swyddfa’r comisiwn wedi ennill ei phlwyf o ran bod yn rhan o’r modd arferol y gwneir pethau yn y fan hyn a bod ei waith rhagweithiol mewn partneriaeth â sefydliadau eraill yn cyd-fynd yn agos gyda’i swyddogaethau rheoliadol. Rydym yn dal i aros am ganlyniad ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth y DU.

Finally, alongside the final budget last year, we published a comprehensive equality impact assessment. We were the first administration in the UK to publish such an assessment with its budget. This year, an update reflecting any changes and any impact on protected characteristics will be published at draft budget stage next week for consultation, engagement with and involvement by the people of Wales. This confirms our commitment to putting equality at the heart of the Welsh Government.

Yn olaf, ynghyd â’r gyllideb derfynol y llynedd, gwnaethom gyhoeddi asesiad cynhwysfawr o’r effaith ar gydraddoldeb. Ni oedd y weinyddiaeth gyntaf yn y DU i gyhoeddi asesiad o’r fath gyda’i gyllideb. Eleni, bydd diweddariad yn adlewyrchu unrhyw newidiadau ac unrhyw effaith ar nodweddion gwarchodedig yn cael ei gyhoeddi yn ystod y cyfnod cyllideb ddrafft wythnos nesaf er mwyn ymgynghori arno, ac er mwyn i bobl Cymru gysylltu a chymryd rhan ynddo. Mae hyn yn cadarnhau ein hymrwymiad i roi cydraddoldeb wrth wraidd gwaith Llywodraeth Cymru.

Mohammad Asghar: Thank you for your statement this afternoon, Minister. Presiding Officer, I request that, in future, the statement should be provided half an hour before Plenary. There were very important debates before this, including the First Minister’s statement, which hardly leaves time to read through the statement. That means that we cannot pinpoint the real issues on which we want to question the Minister. I hope that you will consider my request for future.

Mohammad Asghar: Diolch am eich datganiad y prynhawn yma, Weinidog. Lywydd, yn y dyfodol, gofynnaf fod y datganiad yn cael ei darparu hanner awr cyn y Cyfarfod Llawn. Roedd dadleuon pwysig iawn cyn hyn, gan gynnwys datganiad y Prif Weinidog, sy’n gadael fawr o amser i ddarllen drwy’r datganiad. Mae hynny’n golygu na allwn ddod o hyd yn fanwl i’r materion go iawn yr ydym am holi’r Gweinidog amdanynt. Gobeithiaf y byddwch yn ystyried fy nghais ar gyfer y dyfodol.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. It is not a matter for the Chair. The Minister will have heard what you said and will reply, but I do not think that practice—

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn, Nid yw’n fater i’r Cadeirydd. Bydd y Gweinidog wedi clywed beth ddywedoch ac yn ateb, ond nid wyf yn credu bod yr arfer—

Mohammad Asghar: The statements—

Mohammad Asghar: Mae’r datganiadau—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. I am speaking. I do not think that practice is any different today and it is long established. If that is not the case, you are welcome to draw the matter to the attention of the presiding office at another time.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Rwyf yn siarad. Nid wyf yn credu bod yr arfer fymryn gwahanol heddiw ac mae wedi sefydlu ers amser maith. Os nad yw hynny’n wir, mae croeso i chi dynnu’r mater at sylw swyddfa’r Llywydd rhywdro eto. 

Mohammad Asghar: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, once again, I thank you for the statement. I am sure that you are doing a very good job on equality, which we desperately need in this part of the world. I welcome your assertion that equality will lie at the heart of the work carried out by the Welsh Government. We face a number of major equality challenges in Wales, which must be tackled during the fourth Assembly. It is impossible to list them all now. You have mentioned quite a few organisations, including the faith communities forum, the disability equality advisory group, the Hard to Engage!? event, ‘Travelling to a Better Future’, the all Wales women’s network and so on. It is impossible to list all of the challenges now, but here are some examples: some 90,000 children live in severe poverty in Wales; disability hate crime increased in all four geographical police force areas during 2010-11; levels of elder abuse are higher in Wales than in any other UK nation; homophobic bullying remains a major problem in Wales; fewer than half of our railway stations are accessible to disabled passengers; and there remains a significant entrepreneurial gender gap in Wales.

Mohammad Asghar: Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Weinidog, unwaith yn rhagor, diolch yn fawr ichi am eich datganiad. Rwy’n siŵr eich bod yn gwneud gwaith da iawn ar gydraddoldeb, sy’n rhywbeth yr ydym ei ddirfawr angen yn y rhan yma o’r byd. Rwy’n croesawu eich honiad y bydd cydraddoldeb wrth wraidd y gwaith a wneir gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Rydym yn wynebu nifer o heriau cydraddoldeb mawr yng Nghymru, ac mae’n rhaid eu taclo yn ystod y pedwerydd Cynulliad. Nid yw’n bosibl i restru bob un yn awr. Rydych wedi sôn am eithaf tipyn o sefydliadau, yn cynnwys y fforwm cymunedau ffydd, y grŵp ymgynghori ar  gydraddoldeb anabledd, y digwyddiad Anodd Ymgysylltu!?, ‘Teithio i Ddyfodol Gwell’, rhwydwaith menywod Cymru gyfan, ac ati. Mae’n amhosibl rhestru bob un o’r heriau yn awr, ond dyma rai enghreifftiau; mae 90,000 o blant yng Nghymru yn byw mewn tlodi difrifol; cynyddodd troseddau casineb anabledd ym mhob ardal heddlu ddaearyddol yn 2010-11; mae’r lefel cam-drin henoed yn uwch yng Nghymru nag yn unrhyw genedl arall yn y DU; mae bwlio homoffobig yn dal i fod yn broblem fawr yng Nghymru; mae llai na hanner o’n gorsafoedd rheilffordd yn hygyrch i deithwyr anabl; ac mae dal i fod bwlch sylweddol o ran rhywiau ymysg entrepreneuriaid.

Minister, can you offer assurances that this Government is ready to take responsibility for the problems that we face in Wales, and that it will seek to use the powers that it holds to tackle them? Also, given your diverse portfolio responsibilities, can you confirm the level of dialogue that you plan to have with your ministerial colleagues to ensure that equality is at the forefront of the decision-making process in your Government?

Weinidog, a allwch chi gynnig sicrwydd bod y Llywodraeth hon yn barod i gymryd cyfrifoldeb am y problemau rydym yn eu hwynebu yng Nghymru, ac y bydd yn ceisio defnyddio’r pwerau sydd ganddi i’w taclo? Hefyd, o ystyried eich cyfrifoldebau portffolio gwahanol, a allwch chi gadarnhau faint o ddeialog rydych yn bwriadu ei gael gyda’ch cyd-Weinidogion i sicrhau bod cydraddoldeb ar frig proses gwneud penderfyniadau eich Llywodraeth?

The single equality scheme includes action plans that set out how Government departments would deliver their commitment to promoting equality. It is due to come to an end in March. What will replace it, Minister? I welcome your comments concerning the Welsh Government’s plans to engage with representative groups to influence policy. Decisions linked to equality must be influenced by grass-roots understanding rather than big Government dictating from the centre. Can you outline, Minister, how regular such engagement will be? How will you ensure that a wide range of representative groups are consulted throughout the fourth Assembly? Also, how do you plan to keep AMs updated about the progress and results of engagement?

Mae’r cynllun cydraddoldeb sengl yn cynnwys cynlluniau gweithredu sy’n amlinellu sut y byddai adrannau’r Llywodraeth yn gwireddu eu hymrwymiad i hybu cydraddoldeb. Disgwylir iddo ddod i ben ym mis Mawrth. Beth fydd yn dod yn ei le, Weinidog? Croesawaf eich sylwadau ar gynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru i ymgysylltu â grwpiau cynrychioladol er mwyn dylanwadu ar bolisi. Rhaid i benderfyniadau sy’n gysylltiedig â chydraddoldeb gael eu dylanwadu gan ddealltwriaeth ar lawr gwlad yn hytrach na Llywodraeth fawr yn gorchymyn o’r canol. A allwch chi amlinellu, Weinidog, pa mor aml fydd ymgysylltu o’r fath? Sut y byddwch yn sicrhau ymgynghoriaeth  ag amrywiaeth helaeth o grwpiau cynrychioladol yn ystod y pedwerydd Cynulliad? Hefyd, sut ydych chi’n bwriadu rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Aelodau Cynulliad am gynnydd a chanlyniadau yr ymgysylltu?

The specific equality duties in Wales are a hugely important tool for tackling some of the challenges that we face that are focused on equality. I believe that it is vital that people who use, rely on and, ultimately, pay for public services know exactly what they should legally expect. Listed public bodies in Wales will need to produce equality objectives and equality plans, and we await the publication of much of this information next April. These are important steps, Minister, but how will you monitor these procedures to ensure that they make a real difference and do not become merely a box-ticking exercise? Also, how will you ensure that the public are fully informed and engaged and that they understand these procedures, so that local, grass-roots scrutiny of public bodies takes place?

Mae’r dyletswyddau cydraddoldeb penodol yng Nghymru yn ffordd bwysig iawn o daclo rhai o’r heriau a wynebwn sy’n ymwneud â chydraddoldeb. Credaf ei bod yn hanfodol fod pobl sy’n defnyddio, dibynnu ar ac yn y pen draw yn talu am wasanaethau cyhoeddus yn gwybod yn union beth y gallent ei ddisgwyl yn gyfreithiol. Bydd angen i gyrff cyhoeddus a restrwyd yng Nghymru gynhyrchu amcanion cydraddoldeb a chynlluniau cydraddoldeb, ac rydym yn aros i lawer o’r wybodaeth hon gael ei chyhoeddi mis Ebrill nesaf. Mae’r rhain yn gamau pwysig, Weinidog, ond sut y byddwch yn monitro’r gweithdrefnau hyn i sicrhau eu bod yn gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn ac nid dim ond yn ymarfer biwrocrataidd? Hefyd, sut wnewch chi sicrhau bod y cyhoedd yn cael gwybodaeth lawn a’u cynnwys fel eu bod yn deall y gweithdrefnau hyn, fel bod craffu ar gyrff cyhoeddus yn lleol ar lawr gwlad?

Finally, Minister, you expressed that you have major concerns about the equality and human rights helpline. However, you did not elaborate on those concerns. I would be grateful if you would do so. This is a very important topic, and it should be taken seriously by all departments in the Welsh Government.

Yn olaf, Weinidog, dywedoch bod gennych bryderon mawr am y linell gymorth cydraddoldeb a hawliau dynol. Er hynny, ni wnaethoch ymhelaethu ar y pryderon hynny. Byddai’n dda gennyf pe baech yn gwneud hynny. Mae hwn yn bwnc pwysig iawn, a dylai bob adran yn Llywodraeth Cymru ei gymryd o ddifrif.

Jane Hutt: I am grateful to the opposition’s spokesperson on equalities for the interest that he has taken in this statement. I will move straight on to a very important question that he raised in relation to how we are tackling hate crime. This is not a devolved issue, but he will know about the work that I have done with my colleague the Minister for Local Government and Communities. The community cohesion strategy is a vehicle that acknowledges that hate crime can be one of the most serious consequences of low cohesion. It is a key priority of the Welsh Government to work with partners to reduce homophobic, transphobic, disability-related and religiously motivated bullying and hate crime. The opposition spokesperson may have been with me at the event that Mencap Cymru organised and at which I spoke. The event was hosted by Rebecca Evans, one of the regional Members for Mid and West Wales. That was about how we can tackle hate crime in all its forms by meeting with stakeholders throughout Wales.

Jane Hutt: Rwy’n ddiolchgar i lefarydd yr wrthblaid ar gydraddoldeb am y diddordeb a gymerodd yn y datganiad hwn. Symudaf yn syth ymlaen at gwestiwn pwysig iawn a ofynnodd am sut yr ydym yn taclo troseddau casineb. Nid yw hwn yn fater a ddatganolwyd, ond bydd yn gwybod am y gwaith a wnes i gyda fy nghydweithiwr y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Lleol a Chymunedau. Mae’r strategaeth cydlyniad cymunedol yn gyfrwng sy’n cydnabod bod troseddau casineb yn gallu bod yn un o ganlyniadau mwyaf difrifol cydlyniad isel. Mae’n flaenoriaeth allweddol i Lywodraeth Cymru i weithio â phartneriaid i leihau bwlio a throseddau casineb homoffobig, transffobig, sy’n ymwneud ag anabledd ac sydd wedi eu cymell gam grefydd. Efallai yr oedd llefarydd yr wrthblaid yn bresennol gyda mi yn y digwyddiad a drefnodd Mencap Cymru a lle gwneuthum siarad. Cynhaliwyd y digwyddiad gan Rebecca Evans, un o’r Aelodau rhanbarthol dros y Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Roedd hynny’n ymwneud â sut y gallwn daclo troseddau casineb yn eu holl ffurfiau drwy gwrdd â rhanddeiliaid ar hyd a lled Cymru.

I welcome the work of the Equality and Human Rights Commission in this respect. You may be aware that it has undertaken an inquiry into disability harassment and hate crime. It produced a report with key recommendations about multi-agency risk assessment conferences, in which we can play a part in addressing this with a human rights-based approach. Officials are meeting with the Equality and Human Rights Commission to discuss future steps.

Rwy’n croesawu gwaith y Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol yn hyn o beth. Efallai eich bod yn gwybod ei fod wedi cynnal ymchwiliad i aflonyddu ar bobl anabl a throseddau casineb. Cynhyrchodd adroddiad gydag argymhellion allweddol am gynadleddau asesu risg aml-asiantaeth, lle gallwn chwarae ran yn ymdrin â hyn gyda dull sy’n seiliedig ar hawliau dynol. Mae swyddogion yn cwrdd â’r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol i drafod y camau yn y dyfodol.

Your focus on the Equality Act 2010 and Wales-specific equality duties is pertinent to my statement. That Act—brought in by the former UK Government, spearheaded by Harriet Harman, a formidable champion of women’s rights and human rights—brings together all the legal requirements on equality that organisations in the public, private and voluntary sectors need to meet. The general equality duty, which came into force in April of this year, says that public bodies must have due regard to the need to eliminate unlawful discrimination, advance equality of opportunity and foster good relations between people. Public bodies will be held to account through their statutory duties.

Mae eich ffocws ar Ddeddf Cydraddoldeb 2010 a’r dyletswyddau cydraddoldeb penodol i Gymru yn berthnasol i fy natganiad. Mae’r Ddeddf honno—a gyflwynwyd gan Llywodraeth flaenorol y DU, wedi’i harwain gan Harriet Harman, hyrwyddwr hawliau menywod a hawliau dynol aruthrol—yn dod â’r holl ofynion cyfreithiol ynghyd ar gydraddoldeb mae gofyn i bob sefydliad yn y sectorau cyhoeddus, preifat a gwirfoddol eu cwrdd. Dywed y dyletswydd cydraddoldeb cyffredinol, a ddaeth i rym ym mis Ebrill eleni, bod yn rhaid i gyrff gyhoeddus roi sylw dyledus i’r angen i ddileu gwahaniaethu anghyfreithlon, hybu cyfle cyfartal a meithrin perthynas dda rhwng pobl. Bydd cyrff cyhoeddus yn cael eu dwyn i gyfrif drwy eu dyletswyddau statudol.

In order to take this forward, we have worked together to develop a strategic equality plan project, and we have convened a project board with senior management representation to manage and monitor activity and risk and to provide quality assurance. It is a statutory obligation that we embrace. I pay tribute to the Minister for Local Government and Communities who got those regulations approved in April, before the election. As I said, we are the only administration in the UK that also included the obligation to consult with the people most affected by the equality provisions.

Er mwyn mynd â hyn yn ei flaen, rydym wedi cydweithio i ddatblygu project cynllun cydraddoldeb strategol, ac rydym wedi cynnull bwrdd prosiect gyda chynrychiolaeth gan uwch reolwyr i reoli a monitro gweithgarwch a risg ac i ddarparu sicrwydd ansawdd. Mae’n ddyletswydd statudol, ac yr ydym yn ei groesawu. Rwy’n canmol y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau a lwyddodd i gael cymeradwyaeth i’r rheoliadau hynny ym mis Ebrill, cyn yr etholiad. Fel y dywedais, ni yw’r unig weinyddiaeth yn y DU a wnaeth hefyd gynnwys y ddyletswydd i ymgynghori â’r rhai yr effeithir fwyaf arnynt gan y darpariaethau cydraddoldeb.

Finally, you went on to talk about progress on the consultation with the Equality and Human Rights Commission. As I said, we await the results of the consultation, but I am sure that you will join me in recognising the effective working relationship that we have in Wales with the Equality and Human Rights Commission. We are developing a distinctive constitutional, legal and policy context to meet the needs and circumstances of Wales. We have concerns about the prospects for the helpline function, in particular, but I am sure that I can rely on your support as the opposition spokesperson on equalities to ensure that we have a robust response to that consultation.

Yn olaf, aethoch ymlaen i siarad am gynnydd ar yr ymgynghoriad gyda’r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol. Fel y dywedais, rydym yn aros am ganlyniadau’r ymgynghoriad, ond rwy’n siŵr y gwnewch chi ymuno â mi o ran cydnabod y berthynas waith effeithiol sydd gennym gyda’r Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a hawliau Dynol yng Nghymru. Rydym yn datblygu cyd-destun cyfansoddiadol, cyfreithiol a pholisi gwahanol i ddiwallu anghenion ac  amgylchiadau Cymru. Mae gennym bryderon am y rhagolygon i’r llinell gymorth, yn benodol, ond rwy’n siŵr y gallaf ddibynnu ar eich cymorth fel llefarydd yr wrthblaid ar gydraddoldebau i sicrhau ein bod yn ymateb yn gadarn i’r ymgynghoriad hwnnw.

Julie Morgan: Thank you, Minister, for the statement and for all the work that you are doing on equality issues. I am particularly pleased that you will launch the all Wales women’s network, which will give women in Wales a voice. However, do you agree that the huge advances in equality for women are now under threat by the action of the coalition Government in Westminster and its disgraceful attack on women’s services? Women are bearing the brunt of the cuts. It is acknowledged that equality could be set back many years by what is happening in Westminster. Do you see the all Wales women’s network being able to lobby on these non-devolved issues that have such a huge effect on women’s lives in Wales?

Julie Morgan: Diolch, Weinidog, am y datganiad ac am yr holl waith rydych yn ei wneud ar faterion cydraddoldeb. Rwy’n arbennig o falch eich bod wedi lansio rhwydwaith menywod Cymru gyfan, a fydd yn rhoi llais i fenywod yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, a ydych yn cytuno bod y camau breision o ran cydraddoldeb i ferched bellach o dan fygythiad o ganlyniad i gamau’r Llywodraeth glymblaid yn San Steffan a’i hymosodiad cywilyddus ar wasanaethau i fenywod? Menywod sy’n wynebu effaith waethaf y toriadau hynny. Cydnabyddir y gallai cydraddoldeb lithro yn ei ôl flynyddoedd lawer oherwydd beth sy’n digwydd yn San Steffan. A ydych yn rhagweld y bydd rhwydwaith menywod Cymru gyfan yn gallu lobio ar y materion hyn na ddatganolwyd sy’n cael effaith mor fawr ar fywydau menywod yng Nghymru?

Jane Hutt: I thank the Member for Cardiff North for those questions, and I also thank her for welcoming the progress that has been made in establishing this network. We look forward to receiving the proposals. It will give representation to women across Wales and across a range of partner organisations on women’s needs and issues.

Jane Hutt: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Ogledd Caerdydd am y cwestiynau hynny, a diolch iddi hefyd am groesawu’r cynnydd a wnaed o ran sefydlu’r rhwydwaith. Edrychwn ymlaen at dderbyn y cynigion. Bydd yn rhoi cynrychiolaeth i fenywod ar draws Cymru ac ar draws amryw o sefydliadau partner ar anghenion a materion menywod.

4.15 p.m.

The Member’s point about fears that we could be set back by the cuts in funding to the Welsh Government, and the impact that that will have on women in particular, was well reflected in our equality impact assessment. As Members will know, we were the only UK administration to publish an equality impact assessment with the budget that followed the comprehensive spending review. That assessment clearly identified the impacts on women, not only because of the number of women working in the public sector, but also because of the impact on issues that affect women, such as access to public transport, and on their caring responsibilities. That had a clear influence on how we then had to manage and prioritise our precious resources.

Cafodd pwynt yr Aelod ynghylch ofnau y gallem gael ein rhwystro gan y toriadau mewn cyllido i Lywodraeth Cymru, a’r effaith y bydd hynny’n ei chael ar fenywod yn arbennig ei adlewyrchu yn ein hasesiad o’r effaith ar gydraddoldeb. Fel y gŵyr Aelodau, ni oedd yr unig weinyddiaeth yn y DU i gyhoeddi asesiad o’r effaith ar gydraddoldeb gyda’r gyllideb a ddilynodd yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant. Nodwyd yn glir yn yr asesiad hwnnw yr effeithiau ar fenywod, nid yn unig oherwydd y nifer o fenywod sy’n gweithio yn y sector cyhoeddus, ond hefyd oherwydd yr effaith ar faterion sy’n effeithio ar fenywod, megis mynediad at drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ac ar eu cyfrifoldebau gofalu. Cafodd hynny ddylanwad clir ar sut yr oedd yn rhaid i ni reoli a blaenoriaethu ein hadnoddau gwerthfawr.

I am sure that the new coalition will have an effective, but, most importantly, independent voice on this, in liaising with, influencing and scrutinising not just us in the Welsh Government, but, on non-devolved issues, the UK coalition Government.

Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd gan y glymblaid newydd lais effeithiol, ond, yn bwysicaf oll, llais annibynnol ar hyn, wrth gysylltu â, dylanwadu a chraffu nid yn unig arnom ni yn Llywodraeth Cymru, ond, ar faterion nad ydynt wedi eu datganoli, ar Lywodraeth glymblaid y DU.

Lindsay Whittle: Thank you for your statement, Minister. It is extremely important. Central to the task of every level of government in Wales is developing communities in which all are valued, feel safe and can contribute. We must ensure that the Government in Wales sets targets to ensure that all the bodies that it funds meet achievable, practical and measurable goals and show how they will counter discrimination and actively promote equality and social justice. Minister, you should not be afraid to state that bodies that do not have a good reason for failing to meet those targets will face sanctions.

Lindsay Whittle: Diolch am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Mae’n eithriadol o bwysig.  Mae datblygu cymunedau lle rydym i gyd yn cael ein gwerthfawrogi, yn teimlo’n ddiogel ac yn gallu cyfrannu yn hollbwysig ar bob level o lywodraeth yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod y Llywodraeth yng Nghymru yn gosod targedau er mwyn sicrhau bod yr holl gyrff y mae’n eu hariannu yn cyrraedd nodau cyraeddadwy, ymarferol a mesuradwy ac yn dangos sut y byddant yn atal gwahaniaethu a hyrwyddo cydraddoldeb a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Weinidog, ni ddylech ofni dweud y bydd cyrff nad oes ganddynt reswm da dros fethu â chyrraedd y targedau hynny yn wynebu cosbau.

I am a little disappointed as, at first, I thought that it was a glaring omission that you had not mentioned the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, but you mentioned social cohesion and hate crimes in your response to Mohammad Asghar. It was good to see a few Members and the Presiding Officer, in particular, at the annual mardi gras in Cardiff—it is a pity that more people did not turn up. However, considering the recent attacks on Welsh people and the Welsh language, notably from a so-called journalist, Roger Lewis—who, I am ashamed to say, is from my hometown of Caerphilly—and from Jeremy Clarkson, that overpaid nobody, and the terribly offensive Facebook page about the Gleision miners, should we look at equality issues in relation to the Welsh language and Welsh nationality?

Yr wyf braidd yn siomedig oherwydd, ar y dechrau, roeddwn yn meddwl ei fod yn ddiffyg amlwg nad oeddech wedi crybwyll y gymuned lesbiaidd, hoyw, deurywiol a thrawsrywiol, ond yr oeddech yn sôn am gydlyniad cymdeithasol a throseddau casineb yn eich ymateb i Mohammad Asghar. Roedd yn dda i weld ychydig o Aelodau a’r Llywydd, yn arbennig, yn y mardi gras blynyddol yng Nghaerdydd—mae’n drueni nad oedd mwy o bobl wedi troi i fyny. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried yr ymosodiadau diweddar ar Gymry a’r iaith Gymraeg, yn enwedig oddi wrth newyddiadurwr, fel y’i gelwir, Roger Lewis—sydd hefyd yn enedigol o Gaerffili—a Jeremy Clarkson, person dibwys sy’n cael ei ordalu, a’r dudalen Facebook ofnadwy o sarhaus am lowyr Gleision, a ddylem edrych ar faterion cydraddoldeb mewn perthynas â’r iaith Gymraeg a chenedligrwydd Cymreig?  

According to a recent report from the Equality and Human Rights Commission—I am aware of your stand to help the Cardiff-based office—disabled people are more likely to be discriminated against in work situations in terms of their levels of pay and promotion, and in relation to feeling safe in their communities. I was at New Inn in Pontypool at a Multiple Sclerosis Society meeting only last week at which disabled people in wheelchairs were being taught self-defence in order to fend off attacks and perhaps, in some cases, fight back. What sort of sad country has Wales become that we have to teach people in wheelchairs, disabled people who are not as ambulant as the rest of us, self-defence? For shame. Minister, I would be grateful if you could tell me what steps you will take to address this unacceptable situation.

Yn ôl adroddiad diweddar gan y Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol—yr wyf yn ymwybodol o’ch safiad i helpu’r swyddfa yng Nghaerdydd—mae pobl anabl yn fwy tebygol o wynebu gwahaniaethu mewn sefyllfaoedd gwaith o ran eu lefelau cyflog a dyrchafiad, ac mewn perthynas â theimlo’n ddiogel yn eu cymunedau.  Roeddwn yn New Inn ym Mhont-y-pŵl yn un o gyfarfodydd y Gymdeithas Sglerosis Ymledol yr wythnos diwethaf lle’r oedd pobl anabl mewn cadeiriau olwyn yn dysgu hunanamddiffyn er mwyn gwarchod eu hunain rhag ymosodiadau ac efallai, mewn rhai achosion, ymladd yn ôl. Pa fath o wlad drist yw Cymru os oes rhaid inni ddysgu pobl mewn cadeiriau olwyn, pobl anabl nad ydynt yn gallu cerdded mor hawdd â’r gweddill ohonom, i amddiffyn eu hunain? Rhag ein cywilydd. Weinidog, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ddweud wrthyf ba gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â sefyllfa annerbyniol hon.

Jane Hutt: Lindsay Whittle made a number of very powerful points in his contribution, particularly in the examples that he gave of unacceptable, discriminatory slurs. It gives me the opportunity to say how important we consider to be not only the mardi gras, but the excellent policy work that is being undertaken by the Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Excellence Centre Wales. It recently had a conference at which I gave a strong contribution. It is also clear that disabled people in Wales are fearful, not only of hate crime, which we are taking action to counteract, but of the impacts of the UK Government’s changes to welfare and disability living allowance. Those changes have caused widespread alarm among recipients of those benefits. Again, we have to look at what we can do, in terms of our budgetary responsibilities, to mitigate those impacts. The Member made important points.

Jane Hutt: Gwnaeth Lindsay Whittle nifer o bwyntiau pwerus iawn yn ei gyfraniad, yn enwedig yn yr enghreifftiau a roddodd o ymosodiadau annerbyniol, gwahaniaethol.  Mae’n rhoi cyfle i mi ddweud pa mor bwysig yn ein barn ni yw nid yn unig mardi gras, ond y gwaith polisi rhagorol sy’n cael ei wneud gan Ganolfan Rhagoriaeth Lesbaidd, Hoyw a Deurywiol Cymru. Yn ddiweddar, cynhaliodd gynhadledd lle rhoddais gyfraniad cryf. Mae hefyd yn amlwg bod pobl anabl yng Nghymru yn ofnus, nid yn unig rhag troseddau casineb, sy’n cael eu taclo gennym, ond rhag effeithiau newidiadau Llywodraeth y DU i les a lwfans byw i’r anabl. Mae’r newidiadau hynny wedi achosi ofn ymysg rhai sy’n derbyn y budd-daliadau hynny. Unwaith eto, mae’n rhaid i ni edrych ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud, o ran ein cyfrifoldebau cyllidebol, i liniaru’r effeithiau hynny. Gwnaeth yr Aelod bwyntiau pwysig.

Peter Black: Thank you for this statement, Minister. It is useful to see an outline of the work that you are doing to promote equalities in Wales. I note that the programme for government, which was launched by the First Minister earlier today, contains an equalities section that lists a number of long-term challenges that it states that your actions will contribute to meeting. Among those challenges are reducing inequalities in education, skills, health, housing and in employment outcomes for people with protected characteristics. Public service satisfaction rates for people with protected characteristics are also mentioned. The programme does not specify any targets or give any detail as to what would be considered a success in relation to meeting those challenges, so perhaps you could take this opportunity to tell us about that and about how we can we measure success in that regard over the remaining four and a half years of this Government.

Peter Black: Diolch am y datganiad hwn, Weinidog. Mae’n ddefnyddiol gweld amlinelliad o’r gwaith yr ydych yn ei wneud i hyrwyddo cydraddoldeb yng Nghymru.  Nodaf fod y rhaglen lywodraethu, a lansiwyd gan y Prif Weinidog yn gynharach heddiw, yn cynnwys adran ar gydraddoldeb sy’n rhestru nifer o heriau hirdymor a gaiff eu taclo, i raddau, gan eich gweithrediadau. Ymysg yr heriau hynny yw lleihau anghydraddoldebau mewn addysg, sgiliau, iechyd, tai ac mewn canlyniadau cyflogaeth i bobl â nodweddion gwarchodedig. Mae cyfraddau boddhad gwasanaeth cyhoeddus ar gyfer pobl â nodweddion gwarchodedig yn cael eu crybwyll hefyd. Nid yw’r rhaglen yn nodi unrhyw dargedau nac yn rhoi unrhyw fanylion am yr hyn a fyddai’n cael ei ystyried fel llwyddiant o ran bodloni’r heriau hynny, felly efallai y gallech gymryd y cyfle hwn i ddweud wrthym am hynny ac am sut y gallwn fesur llwyddiant yn hynny o beth dros y pedair blynedd a hanner sydd ar ôl gyda’r Llywodraeth hon.

You referred in your statement to the migrants forum, which is a multi-agency group. I understand that it mostly deals with asylum seekers and refugees, and has very little engagement at this stage with migrant workers. Could you confirm whether that is the case, and explain to us how this group will engage with migrant workers in future? Migrants are a particularly important group of people who face particular difficulties, and, if we can find better ways to engage with them and understand their problems, then that would be very useful.

Cyfeiriasoch yn eich datganiad at y fforwm ymfudwyr, sydd yn grŵp amlasiantaethol. Deallaf ei fod yn delio yn bennaf â cheiswyr lloches a ffoaduriaid, ac ychydig iawn o ymgysylltu sydd ar hyn o bryd gyda gweithwyr mudol. A allech gadarnhau a yw hynny’n wir, ac egluro wrthym sut y bydd y grŵp hwn yn ymgysylltu â gweithwyr mudol yn y dyfodol? Mae ymfudwyr yn grŵp arbennig o bwysig o bobl sy’n wynebu anawsterau penodol, ac, os gallwn ddod o hyd i ffyrdd gwell o ymgysylltu â hwy a deall eu problemau, byddai hynny’n ddefnyddiol iawn.

You also referred to the launch of ‘Travelling to a Better Future: A Gypsy and Traveller Framework for Action’, and there is a target in your programme for government to establish more Gypsy and Traveller sites around Wales. What budgets are available for that? Local government faces a number of challenges in this regard; I understand that grants are available, but it would be useful if you could tell us how those will pan out over the period of the programme for government, so that local councils are aware of the resources available to meet your aspirations.

Cyfeiriasoch hefyd at lansiad ‘Teithio i Ddyfodol Gwell: Sipsiwn a Theithwyr fframwaith ar gyfer Gweithredu a Chynllun Cyflenwi’, ac mae targed yn eich rhaglen lywodraethu i sefydlu mwy o safleoedd Sipsiwn a Theithwyr ledled Cymru. Pa gyllidebau sydd ar gael ar gyfer hynny? Mae llywodraeth leol yn wynebu nifer o heriau yn hyn o beth; deallaf fod grantiau ar gael, ond byddai’n ddefnyddiol pe gallech ddweud wrthym sut y bydd hynny’n cael ei weithredu dros gyfnod y rhaglen lywodraethu, er mwyn i gynghorau lleol fod yn ymwybodol o’r adnoddau sydd ar gael i ateb eich dyheadau.

Finally, equal pay is very important, and I wonder whether you have seen the reports today about the outcome of the job evaluation exercise at Bridgend County Borough Council, and, in particular, the impact on women workers, such as teaching assistants, who could lose up to £10,000 per annum. Bridgend authority is a Labour-led authority, of course. I am concerned that these evaluation exercises are coming in unevenly across Wales. The statement made by the Unison official was that this was the worst example he had seen in Wales in terms of the outcomes for particular workers. What actions are you taking, with the Minister for Local Government and Communities, to monitor the outcome of these evaluation exercises to ensure that the groups that you referred to in your statement do not suffer as a result? Also, what actions are you taking to ensure that proper transition arrangements are put in place so that, where there will be significant losses of salary, the workers affected will not lose out immediately, but will have those losses spread out over time?

Yn olaf, mae cyflog cyfartal yn bwysig iawn, a tybed a ydych wedi gweld yr adroddiadau heddiw am ganlyniad yr ymarfer gwerthuso swyddi yng Nghyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-Bont ar Ogwr, ac, yn benodol, yr effaith ar weithwyr benywaidd, megis cynorthwywyr dysgu, a allai colli hyd at £10,000 y flwyddyn. Awdurdod Llafur yw Pen-y-Bont, wrth gwrs. Yr wyf yn poeni bod yr ymarferion gwerthuso hyn yn anghyson ledled Cymru. Dywedodd y datganiad gan y swyddog Unsain mai dyma’r enghraifft waethaf yr oedd wedi ei gweld yng Nghymru o ran y canlyniadau i weithwyr penodol. Pa gamau ydych chi’n eu cymryd, gyda’r Gweinidog dros Lywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, i fonitro canlyniad yr ymarferion gwerthuso hyn i sicrhau nad yw’r grwpiau y cyfeiriasoch atynt yn eich datganiad yn dioddef o ganlyniad? Hefyd, pa gamau ydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod trefniadau pontio priodol yn cael eu rhoi ar waith er mwyn sicrhau, lle bydd colledion sylweddol o gyflog, na fydd y gweithwyr sy’n cael eu heffeithio yn colli allan ar unwaith, gyda’r colledion hynny yn cael eu gwasgaru dros gyfnod o amser?

Jane Hutt: Delivery by the Welsh Government—as indicated this afternoon by the First Minister in his statement on the programme for government—is the key to addressing equality of outcome. It is not just about the routes that we are taking to ensure equality of opportunity, but the equality of outcome, that are crucial, as you will recognise. It is helpful of the Member to draw attention to the focus and purpose of the migrants forum, which was convened back in 2008 as a multi-agency group. It recognises the valuable economic and cultural contribution made by migrants, and it strives to support them as they settle in Wales. A significant amount of work has already been done to ensure that Wales can live up to its aspiration to be an inclusive nation. We must ensure that the membership of the multi-agency migrants forum, which meets regularly, clearly reflects the need to address that. The issues around economic migrants have been clear; there are references across Government and the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science has an interest in these matters. The migrants forum is an important part of our commitment to delivery.

Jane Hutt: Mae cyflenwi gan Lywodraeth Cymru—fel y nodwyd y prynhawn yma gan y Prif Weinidog yn ei ddatganiad ar y rhaglen lywodraethu—yn allweddol i fynd i’r afael â chanlyniadau cyfartal. Nid dim ond mater o’r camau yr ydym yn eu cymryd i sicrhau cyfle cyfartal, ond canlyniadau cyfartal sy’n hanfodol, fel y byddwch yn cydnabod. Mae’n ddefnyddiol fod yr Aelod wedi tynnu sylw at ffocws a phwrpas y fforwm ymfudwyr, a gafodd ei gynnull yn ôl yn 2008 fel grŵp amlasiantaethol. Mae’n cydnabod y cyfraniad economaidd a diwylliannol gwerthfawr a wneir gan ymfudwyr, ac mae’n ymdrechu i’w cefnogi wrth iddynt ymgartrefu yng Nghymru. Mae cryn dipyn o waith eisoes wedi’i wneud i sicrhau y gall Cymru gadw at ei dyhead i fod yn genedl gynhwysol. Mae’n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod aelodaeth y fforwm ymfudwyr amlasiantaethol, sy’n cyfarfod yn rheolaidd, yn adlewyrchu’n glir yr angen i roi sylw i hynny. Mae’r materion ynghylch ymfudwyr economaidd wedi bod yn glir; mae cyfeiriadau ar draws y Llywodraeth ac mae gan y Gweinidog Busnes, Menter, Technoleg a Gwyddoniaeth ddiddordeb yn y materion hyn. Mae’r fforwm ymfudwyr yn rhan bwysig o’n hymrwymiad i gyflenwi.

The framework for action for the Gypsy/Traveller community, which I will be publishing shortly, is pertinent with regard to the opportunities that we have to learn the lessons from our close work with Gypsies and Travellers as a result of consultation. Pioneering work was carried out by a former committee of this Assembly, which then gave a brief on action that needs to be taken, again across Government. It also influenced the way in which we have taken the Gypsy/Traveller site refurbishment grant forward. We concluded, as a Welsh Government, that we needed to merge two grant programmes, allowing local authorities to apply for 100 per cent of the project funding, recognising that that would be beneficial to them in terms of access to resources. That 100 per cent grant funding underpins our aim of bringing all Gypsy/Traveller sites in Wales up to a decent standard and will ensure that we can deliver, with our local authorities, in relation to the important needs of Gypsies and Travellers in terms of their settled sites.

Mae’r fframwaith ar gyfer gweithredu ar gyfer y gymuned Sipsiwn/Teithwyr, a gaiff ei gyhoeddi cyn bo hir, yn berthnasol o ran y cyfleoedd sydd gennym i ddysgu’r gwersi o’n gwaith agos gyda Sipsiwn a Theithwyr o ganlyniad i ymgynghori. Cafodd gwaith arloesol ei wneud gan gyn-bwyllgor y Cynulliad hwn, a gyhoeddodd friff ar y camau sydd angen eu cymryd, unwaith eto ar draws y Llywodraeth. Dylanwadodd hefyd ar y ffordd yr ydym wedi symud ymlaen gyda’r grant adnewyddu safleoedd Sipsiwn/Teithwyr. Daethom i’r casgliad, fel Llywodraeth Cymru, fod angen uno dwy raglen grantiau, gan alluogi awdurdodau lleol i wneud cais am 100 y cant o gyllid y prosiect, gan gydnabod y byddai o fudd iddynt o ran mynediad at adnoddau. Bydd y cyllid grant 100 y cant hynny’n tanlinellu ein nod o godi’r safon o ran holl safleoedd Sipsiwn/Teithwyr yng Nghymru a sicrhau y gallwn gyflawni, gyda’n hawdurdodau lleol, mewn perthynas ag anghenion pwysig Sipsiwn a Theithwyr o ran eu safleoedd sefydlog.

Finally, you raised a point about equal pay, and we have been working with our local authorities in Wales to deliver on this. In the past, we have allocated funding to local authorities to enable them to take this forward. There are good examples of authorities that have taken the lead on this—I can mention Torfaen and Neath Port Talbot, among others. We have also made provision with regard to capitalisation. Again, local government has worked alongside Ministers for finance and equality in the Assembly on this, and I very much hope that local authorities will move forward in this respect.

Yn olaf, bu ichi godi pwynt ynghylch cyflog cyfartal, ac yr ydym wedi bod yn gweithio gyda’n hawdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru i gyflawni hyn. Yn y gorffennol, rydym wedi dyrannu cyllid i awdurdodau lleol i’w galluogi i fwrw ymlaen â hyn. Ceir enghreifftiau da o awdurdodau sydd wedi cymryd yr awenau ar hyn—yr wyf yn gallu sôn am Dor-faen a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot, ymhlith eraill. Rydym hefyd wedi gwneud darpariaeth o ran cyfalafu. Unwaith eto, mae llywodraeth leol wedi gweithio ochr yn ochr â Gweinidogion dros gyllid a chydraddoldeb yn y Cynulliad ar hyn, ac yr wyf yn gobeithio’n fawr y bydd awdurdodau lleol yn symud ymlaen yn hyn o beth.

Antoinette Sandbach: I wish to raise a couple of matters with you, Minister. In relation to the all-Wales women’s network, I invite you to ensure that you consider the position of rural women and their ability to access services in particular. They pay the same taxes as everyone else in Wales, but, very often, are unable to access the same services.

Antoinette Sandbach: Hoffwn godi cwpl o faterion gyda chi, Weinidog. Mewn perthynas â’r rhwydwaith menywod Gymru gyfan, rwy’n eich gwahodd i sicrhau eich bod yn ystyried safle menywod gwledig a’u gallu i gael mynediad at wasanaethau yn benodol. Maent yn talu’r un trethi â phawb arall yng Nghymru, ond, yn aml iawn, nid ydynt yn gallu cael mynediad at yr un gwasanaethau.

In relation to fair pay, the Office for National Statistics has evidence that the gender pay gap for full-time work stands at 10.2 per cent and that the median pay gap, comparing all women and men, stands at 19.8 per cent. Do you have any specific ideas as to how you wish to address those matters in Wales in light of your equality duties? What ideas do you have on how to eradicate barriers to employment and, in particular, on how to invest in or permit affordable and flexible childcare? Speaking as a lone parent, I can say that very many lone parents have to access what I would call ‘informal’ childcare, because they cannot access or afford formal childcare. There are substantial barriers in Wales to accessing formal childcare, and while informal childcare may still be paid for, it is not possible to get child tax credits in relation to that childcare. Therefore, I invite you to look at that.

Mewn perthynas â chyflog teg, mae gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol dystiolaeth sy’n dangos mai 10.2 y cant yw’r bwlch cyflog rhwng y rhywiau ar gyfer gwaith llawn amser, ac, os gymharwn yr holl fenywod a dynion, y bwlch cyflog canolrif yw 19.8 y cant. A oes gennych unrhyw syniadau penodol ynghylch sut yr ydych yn dymuno i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hynny yng Nghymru o ystyried eich dyletswyddau cydraddoldeb? Pa syniadau sydd gennych o ran sut i ddileu rhwystrau i gyflogaeth ac, yn arbennig, o ran sut i fuddsoddi mewn neu ganiatáu gofal plant fforddiadwy a hyblyg? Wrth siarad fel rhiant unigol, gallaf ddweud fod yn rhaid i lawer iawn o rieni unigol ddefnyddio’r hyn y byddwn yn galw gofal plant ‘anffurfiol’, oherwydd na allant gael gafael ar neu fforddio gofal plant ffurfiol. Mae rhwystrau sylweddol yng Nghymru o ran cael mynediad at ofal plant ffurfiol, ac er y gall fod angen talu am ofal plant anffurfiol, nid yw’n bosibl i gael credydau treth plant mewn perthynas â’r gofal plant hynny. Felly, yr wyf yn eich gwahodd i edrych ar hynny.

I note the Government’s commitment to gender quotas, and I wonder whether you have looked at the evidence contained in the Davies report, ‘Women on Boards’, which rejects the use of Scandinavian-style mandatory quotas for women in boardrooms. Could you indicate what ways you see of promoting the number of women on boards in Wales without having mandatory quotas?

Nodaf ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth at cwotâu rhyw, a tybed a ydych wedi edrych ar y dystiolaeth a gynhwysir yn adroddiad Davies, ‘Menywod ar Fyrddau Llywodraethu’, sy’n gwrthod y defnydd o cwotâu gorfodol Sgandinafaidd ar gyfer menywod mewn ystafelloedd bwrdd. A allech nodi ffyrdd o hyrwyddo nifer y menywod ar fyrddau yng Nghymru heb gael cwotâu gorfodol?

4.30 p.m.

There are 387,800 disabled people in Wales. This figure represents 21.7 per cent of the population, and about 45.9 per cent of them are economically active. Do you welcome the fact that welfare changes will mean that there will be a sliding scale of support to help those people who are not economically active back to work? These changes will also mean that if you are working, you will not suddenly fall off a cliff in terms of support from the Government, but that there is a gradual change, depending on your earnings. What evidence gathering are you going to do in relation to the changes to payments of income tax and how they will support women? Women are often in the lower-paid group of employees, and raising the limit on income tax payments will inevitably, I hope, lead to some improvements in their situation.

Mae 387,8000 o bobl anabl yng Nghymru. Mae’r ffigur hwn yn cynrychioli 21.7 y cant o’r boblogaeth, ac mae tua 45.9 y cant ohonynt yn economaidd weithgar. A ydych yn croesawu’r ffaith bod newidiadau lles yn golygu y bydd amrywiaeth o gymorth i helpu’r bobl hynny nad ydynt yn economaidd weithgar yn ôl i waith? Os ydych yn gweithio, bydd y newidiadau hyn hefyd yn golygu na fydd cefnogaeth gan y Llywodraeth yn dod i ben yn sydyn, ond yn hytrach bydd newid graddol, yn dibynnu ar faint rydych yn ei ennill. Pa dystiolaeth ydych chi’n mynd i’w chasglu o ran y newidiadau i daliadau treth incwm a’r modd y byddant yn cefnogi menywod? Mae menywod yn aml yn y grŵp gweithwyr cyflog is, a bydd codi’r terfyn ar daliadau treth incwm yn anochel, gobeithio, yn arwain at wella rhywfaint ar eu sefyllfa.

Jane Hutt: Thank you for those questions and points. I assure you that membership of the network has to contain representatives of women’s organisations, groups and communities across Wales. The network’s remit will be to consult with its membership to prioritise women’s issues, and this will include consulting women from rural areas.

Jane Hutt: Diolch am y pwyntiau a’r cwestiynau hynny. Rwy’n eich sicrhau bod yn rhaid i aelodau’r rhwydwaith gynnwys cynrychiolaeth gan sefydliadau menywod, grwpiau a chymunedau ledled Cymru. Cylch gorchwyl y rhwydwaith fydd ymgynghori â’i aelodau er mwyn blaenoriaethu materion menywod, a fydd  yn cynnwys ymgynghori â menywod o ardaloedd gwledig.

It is to be welcomed that the regional Member for North Wales mentions many points that are non-devolved as well as those that are devolved, because I am sure that she has considerable influence over the UK coalition Government. These are serious points, particularly in relation to the gender pay gap, which we have been working to close. The Equal Pay Act 1970 means that, in 2011, we should not still be talking about a gender pay gap. Regarding the Equality Act 2010, we were concerned that the UK Government was resisting having equal pay as a public sector equality duty. As I mentioned in response to Peter Black’s point, we are working to support local government in particular to close the pay gap. The Close the Pay Gap campaign, in partnership with the former Equal Opportunities Commission, Wales Trades Union Congress and the Welsh Government, has helped to make progress in this respect, as the gap needs to be closed.

Mae’n rhywbeth i’w groesawu bod yr Aelod rhanbarthol dros Ogledd Cymru yn sôn am lawer o bwyntiau na chawsant eu datganoli yn ogystal â rhai sydd wedi cael eu datganoli, achos rwy’n siŵr bod ganddi ddylanwad sylweddol dros Lywodraeth glymblaid y DU. Mae’r rhain yn bwyntiau difrifol, yn enwedig o ran y bwlch cyflog rhwng y rhywiau, y buom yn ymdrechu i’w gau. Mae Deddf Gyflog Gyfartal 1970 yn golygu na ddylem fod yn sôn am fwlch cyflog rhwng y rhywiau yn 2011. O ran Deddf Cydraddoldeb 2010, roedd gennym bryder fod Llywodraeth y DU yn gwrthwynebu cael cyflog cyfartal yn ddyletswydd cydraddoldeb sector cyhoeddus. Fel y soniais yn fy ateb i bwynt Peter Black, rydym yn ymdrechu i gefnogi llywodraeth leol yn benodol i gau’r bwlch cyflog. Mae’r ymgyrch Cau’r Bwlch Cyflog, mewn partneriaeth â’r Comisiwn Cyfle Cyfartal blaenorol, Cyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru, wedi helpu i wneud cynnydd yn hyn o beth, gan fod angen cau’r bwlch.

The point about barriers to employment is crucial, and I am sure that the Member will welcome the pledges for a fairer future in our programme of government, one of which is to expand the focus of Flying Start provision. This expansion includes free childcare for some of the most disadvantaged children in Wales. However, the UK coalition Government’s cuts to working family tax credit have an impact on affordable childcare, and we need to support the providers and the beneficiaries of this care.

Mae’r pwynt am rwystrau i gyflogaeth yn allweddol, ac rwy’n siŵr y bydd yr Aelod yn croesawu’r addewidion am ddyfodol tecach yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu, ac un ohonynt yw ehangu ffocws darpariaeth Dechrau’n Deg. Mae’r ehangu hwn yn cynnwys gofal plant am ddim i rai o’r plant mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae toriadau gan Lywodraeth glymblaid y DU i gredyd treth teuluoedd sy’n gweithio yn cael effaith ar ofal plant fforddiadwy, ac mae angen i ni gefnogi darparwyr y gofal hwn a’r rhai sy’n elwa ohono. 

Like the important Davies report, we acknowledge the under-representation of women at many levels, not only on boards, but in public bodies, too. You will know from our programme of government that we have made a commitment to address this. In public appointments, for example, we need to ensure that we have a greater diversity of candidates. We are exploring options that include assessing the legal scope for action on quotas. We need to be aware of our powers and of opportunities in that regard.

Fel ag y gwna adroddiad pwysig Davies, rydym yn cydnabod bod menywod wedi eu tangynrychioli ar sawl lefel, nid yn unig ar fyrddau ond mewn cyrff cyhoeddus hefyd. Fe wyddoch o’n rhaglen lywodraethu ein bod wedi gwneud ymrwymiad i ymdrin â hyn. O ran penodiadau cyhoeddus, er enghraifft, mae angen i ni sicrhau bod gennym fwy o amrywiaeth o ymgeiswyr. Rydym yn edrych ar opsiynau sy’n cynnwys asesu’r oblygiadau cyfreithiol ar gyfer cyflwyno cwotâu. Mae angen i ni fod yn ymwybodol o’n pwerau a chyfleoedd yn hynny o beth.

Finally, on the issues affecting disabled people, I have already mentioned our concerns about the impact of welfare reform. Disabled people want to participate and be economically active, to overcome the many barriers that prevent them from playing their part in the workforce. The opportunities for disabled people to access work are crucial, as is how that is handled with regard to welfare reform. As I said, we are particularly concerned about the changes to the disability living allowance and to the independent living fund, as we are about the issues that are being raised with regard to assessments. We need to ensure that we address those issues and work with the disability equality organisations, which I am doing, as I chair the disability equality forum.

Yn olaf, o ran y materion sy’n effeithio ar bobl anabl, soniais yn barod am ein pryderon am effaith diwygio lles. Mae pobl anabl eisiau cymryd rhan a bod yn economaidd weithgar, er mwyn goresgyn y nifer o rwystrau sy’n eu hatal rhag chwarae eu rhan yn y gweithlu. Mae’r cyfleoedd i bobl anabl gael mynediad at waith yn allweddol, fel y mae’r ffordd yr ymdrinnir â hynny o ran diwygio lles. Fel y dywedais, rydym yn arbennig o bryderus am y newidiadau i’r lwfans byw i’r anabl ac i’r lwfans byw yn annibynnol, fel yr ydym am broblemau sy’n cael eu codi o ran asesiadau. Mae angen i ni sicrhau ein bod yn ymdrin â’r materion hynny a chydweithio â sefydliadau cydraddoldeb anabledd, ac rwyf yn gwneud hyn fel cadeirydd y fforwm cydraddoldeb anabledd.

Diwygio Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus
Public Services Reform

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have selected amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the name of William Graham, amendments 5, 6, 7 in the name of Peter Black, and amendment 8 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Rwyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1, 2, 3 a 4 yn enw William Graham, gwelliannau 5, 6 a 7 yn enw Peter Black, a gwelliant 8 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Cynnig NDM4807 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4807 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Yn nodi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen â’i hagenda ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Notes progress on the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform.

The Minister for Local Government and Communities (Carl Sargeant): I move the motion.

Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

This Government values public services: they must drive economic prosperity and social wellbeing throughout our communities. We will continue to invest in them, and challenge them where we need to do so, to ensure delivery for the people of Wales. Our reform agenda is a practical programme of action and support for the delivery of improved services in the challenging financial context. I will concentrate in the debate on updating Members on progress made in taking this action forward.

Mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn gwerthfawrogi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus: mae’n rhaid iddynt sbarduno ffyniant economaidd a lles cymdeithasol ar draws ein cymunedau. Byddwn yn parhau i fuddsoddi ynddynt, a’u herio lle mae angen i ni wneud hynny, er mwyn sicrhau darpariaeth i bobl Cymru. Mae ein hagenda ddiwygio yn rhaglen weithredu a chymorth ymarferol i ddarparu gwasanaethau gwell yn y cyd-destun ariannol heriol. Byddaf yn canolbwyntio yn y ddadl ar roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Aelodau ar y cynnydd o ran datblygu’r camau hyn.

I hope that last Wednesday’s debate put to rest the question of reorganisation. Julie James and a Member for North Wales spoke of their experiences of the last reorganisation in 1996. That was a helpful reality check about the potential human and financial costs of local government reorganisation. In last week’s debate, the new public services delivery footprint was also discussed, removing any misunderstanding as to its purpose. Nick Ramsay acknowledged that in summing up last week. However, I will say again that the aim is to provide clarity and coherence for future regional collaboration across public services. I am not seeking to unpick existing arrangements where they are working well; the footprint will be the basis of future work. It provides the clarity that local government itself has called for.

Gobeithiaf y gwnaeth ddadl dydd Mercher diwethaf dawelu’r dyfroedd o ran ad-drefnu. Soniodd Julie James ac Aelod dros Ogledd Cymru am eu profiadau o’r ad-drefnu diwethaf yn 1996. Roedd hynny o ddefnydd i’n hatgoffa am y costau dynol ac ariannol posibl a ddaw yn sgîl ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol. Yn y ddadl yr wythnos diwethaf, trafodwyd y patrwm darpariaeth gwasanaethau cyhoeddus newydd hefyd, a gafodd wared ar unrhyw gamddealltwriaeth ynglŷn â’i fwriad. Gwnaeth Nick Ramsay gydnabod hynny wrth gloi’r ddadl yr wythnos diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, dywedaf drachefn mai’r bwriad yw rhoi eglurder a chydlyniant ar gyfer cydweithio rhanbarthol yn y dyfodol ar draws gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Nid wyf yn ceisio dadwneud trefniadau sy’n bodoli’n barod lle maent yn gweithio’n dda: bydd y patrwm yn sail i waith yn y dyfodol. Mae’n rhoi’r eglurder y galwodd llywodraeth leol ei hun amdano. 

A fair point has been raised by many about how the footprint and collaboration in general fits in with democratic accountability. I believe strongly in local democratic accountability, not just as a cornerstone of our democracy, but as an important driver for improvement. Our local authorities are relatively small and close to their communities, and that is a key strength. I do not want to see the empty localism of the UK coalition Government affect Wales. I want to see local elected members championing the needs of communities, and holding managers to account for their effectiveness in meeting those needs.

Gwnaed pwynt teg gan nifer am sut mae’r patrwm a chydweithio yn gyffredinol yn cyd-fynd yn gyffredinol ag atebolrwydd democrataidd. Credaf yn gryf mewn atebolrwydd democrataidd lleol, nid yn unig fel conglfaen ein democratiaeth, ond fel sbardun pwysig i wella. Mae ein hawdurdodau lleol yn weddol fach ac agos i’w cymunedau, ac mae hynny’n gryfder allweddol. Nid wyf eisiau gweld lleoliaeth wag Llywodraeth glymblaid y DU yn effeithio ar Gymru. Rwyf eisiau gweld aelodau a etholwyd yn lleol yn hyrwyddo anghenion cymunedau, ac yn dwyn rheolwyr i gyfrif am ba mor effeithiol maent yn diwallu’r anghenion hynny.

It is the job of local leaders and officers to put in place ambitious collaborations that deliver, which Angela Burns recognised in her contribution last week. It is the job of local members to scrutinise those arrangements, however they are provided, and the footprint is in no way a means of cutting across that. The provisions of the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011 enable the establishment of joint scrutiny committees involving local authorities and the scrutiny of public service providers by local authorities.

Gwaith arweinwyr lleol a swyddogion yw rhoi  projectau cydweithio ar waith sy’n cyflawni, a gwnaeth Angela Burns gydnabod hyn yn ei chyfraniad wythnos diwethaf. Gwaith aelodau lleol yw craffu ar y trefniadau hynny, sut bynnag y cânt eu darparu, ac nid yw’r patrwm mewn unrhyw fodd yn ffordd o darfu ar hynny. Mae darpariaethau Mesur Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) 2011 yn galluogi i bwyllgorau craffu ar y cyd gael eu sefydlu yn cynnwys awdurdodau lleol a chraffu ar ddarparwyr gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gan awdurdodau lleol.

If small is beautiful in democratic terms, it nevertheless presents risks to performance where smaller organisations have limited capacity to tackle strategic challenges. That is why collaboration is vital for improvement. The major reviews on education, social services and other local services developed the case for regional delivery through collaboration, which I emphasised in my statement of 21 June. We do not need to debate the principles; the issue is about making this happen through strong, clear leadership and through clear accountability. That is why I am reforming the partnership council, as I explained in my statement of 13 July, and I am challenging the council to provide active political leadership for public service improvement reform. I will also make the council a key partner as I hold local government accountable for progress in relation to my portfolio.

Os yw bach yn brydferth yn nhermau democrataidd, serch hynny mae’n cyflwyno risgiau i berfformiad pan fo llai o gapasiti gan sefydliadau llai i daclo heriau strategol. Dyna pam bod cydweithio yn allweddol ar gyfer gwella. Gwnaeth yr adolygiadau o bwys ar addysg, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a gwasanaethau lleol eraill ddatblygu’r achos dros ddarpariaeth ranbarthol drwy gydweithio, a gwneuthum bwysleisio hyn yn fy natganiad ar 21 Mehefin. Nid oes angen i ni gael dadl ar yr egwyddorion; mae hyn yn ymwneud â gwneud i hyn ddigwydd drwy arweinyddiaeth gref a chlir a thrwy atebolrwydd clir. Dyna pam fy mod yn ailsefydlu’r cyngor partneriaeth, fel yr eglurais yn fy natganiad ar 13 Gorffennaf, ac rwy’n herio’r cyngor i ddarparu arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol ragweithiol er mwyn diwygio gwelliant mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Byddaf hefyd yn gwneud y cyngor yn bartner allweddol wrth i mi ddal llywodraeth leol i gyfrif am gynnydd o ran fy mhortffolio.

As part of ensuring delivery, there will be a compact in relation to the Simpson review, and local government will define what is to be done, by whom, and where and when it will be delivered. The responsibilities will be crystal clear. We made a good start and good progress at the partnership council meeting in July, addressing key issues such as the new public service footprint, the compact, the reform of councils and rationalisation partnerships. The next meeting taking place will be critical with regard to the decisions of the compact. I will continue to keep Members informed.

Fel rhan o sicrhau y bydd cyflawni, bydd angen compact mewn perthynas ag adolygiad Simpson, a bydd llywodraeth leol yn diffinio beth sydd i’w wneud, gan bwy, a lle a phryd y caiff ei gyflawni. Bydd y cyfrifoldebau yn gwbl glir. Gwnaethom gychwyn da arni a chynnydd da yn y cyfarfod o’r cyngor partneriaeth ym mis Gorffennaf, gan ymdrin â materion allweddol fel y patrwm gwasanaethau cyhoeddus newydd, y compact, diwygio cynghorau a phartneriaethau rhesymoli. Bydd y cyfarfod nesaf yn allweddol o ran penderfyniadau’r compact. Byddaf yn parhau i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Aelodau.   

The political leadership must be supported by effective executive leadership, translating political will into the delivery model and putting the greater good of Wales ahead of individual or organisational interests. Last Thursday, I chaired the first meeting of the public services leadership group, which includes the leaders of many of the largest public services organisations across Wales. I will be leading the team to ensure the delivery of the programme of government. I do not hold all of the levers in delivery, but let me make it very clear: failure to deliver on the part of our partners in the scheme is not an option. The group includes regional leaders of collaboration representing each of the six regions in the new footprint.

Mae’n rhaid i’r arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol gael ei chefnogi gan arweinyddiaeth effeithiol gan y weithrediaeth, gan drosi ewyllys gwleidyddol yn fodel cyflawni a blaenoriaethu Cymru gyfan dros fuddiannau unigol neu sefydliadol. Ddydd Iau diwethaf, cadeiriais gyfarfod cyntaf y grŵp arweinyddiaeth gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, sy’n cynnwys arweinwyr rhai o’r sefydliadau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mwyaf ledled Cymru. Byddaf yn arwain y tîm i sicrhau bod y rhaglen lywodraethu yn cael ei chyflawni. Nid oes gennyf bob un o’r ysgogiadau i gyflawni, ond gadewch i mi wneud yn glir iawn nad yw methiant i gyflawni gan ein partneriaid yn y cynllun yn opsiwn. Mae’r grŵp yn cynnwys arweinwyr cydweithio yn rhanbarthol yn cynrychioli bob un o’r chwe rhanbarth yn y patrwm newydd.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Carl, you said that you do not hold many levers in terms of the delivery of public services in Wales. What percentage of public services do you actually hold the levers for? Are most of those not in the hands of your fellow Ministers, the Minister for Education and Skills and the Minister for Health and Social Services and, indeed, other Ministers? You hold the lever for only 5 per cent of services directly within your own portfolio.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Carl, dywedasoch nad oes gennych lawer o’r ysgogiadau o ran darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Pa ganran o wasanaethau cyhoeddus a oes gennych chi ysgogiadau ar eu cyfer mewn gwirionedd? Onid yw’r rhan fwyaf o’r rheini yn nwylo eich cyd-Weinidogion, y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau a’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac, yn wir, Gweinidogion eraill?  Dim ond ysgogiadau ar gyfer  5 y cant o wasanaethau sydd gennych yn uniongyrchol o fewn eich portffolio.

Carl Sargeant: I do not think that is accurate at all. I said that we do not hold all the levers and that our partners hold some of them. The fact of the matter is that we should have our eye on delivering good public services and not on who is in charge of what and where. It is about how we deliver good services. Only last term, you agreed with us. The group includes regional leaders for collaboration representing the six regions. This is crucial innovation, ensuring that the benefits of change are felt across Wales. The group will harness the energy, expertise and commitment at the top of our public services organisations, delivering the three key areas: realising savings from collaborative procurement and better asset management for reinvestment in the front line; developing new collaborative approaches to delivery for vulnerable groups, such as victims of domestic abuse—something we have heard about in the Chamber many times; and implementing new ways of improving organisational efficiency, alongside the implementation of the compact with local government.

Carl Sargeant: Nid wyf yn credu bod hynny’n gywir o gwbl. Dywedais nad oes gennym yr ysgogiadau i gyd a bod gan ein partneriaid rai ohonynt. Y gwir amdani yw y dylem fod a’n llygad ar ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus da ac nid ar bwy sy’n gyfrifol am beth ac ym mhle. Mae’n ymwneud â darparu gwasanaethau da. Roeddech yn cytuno â ni y tymor diwethaf. Mae’r grŵp yn cynnwys arweinwyr rhanbarthol ar gyfer cydweithio sy’n cynrychioli’r chwe rhanbarth. Mae hyn yn flaengaredd allweddol, gan sicrhau bod manteisio newid yn cael eu teimlo ar draws Cymru. Bydd y grŵp yn ffrwyno egni, arbenigedd ac ymrwymiad ar frig ein sefydliadau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, gan gyflawni ar y tri maes allweddol: gwireddu arbedion o gaffael ar y cyd  a rheoli asedau’n well er mwyn ail-fuddsoddi yn y rheng flaen; datblygu dulliau ar y cyd newydd i gyflawni ar ran grwpiau agored i niwed, fel dioddefwyr cam-drin domestig—rhywbeth a glywsom amdano yn y Siambr sawl gwaith; a gweithredu ffyrdd newydd o wella effeithlonrwydd sefydliadol, ynghyd â gweithredu’r compact gyda llywodraeth leol.

While taking the national programme forward, we will continue to take action in response to failure with individual organisations where we feel it necessary. I am keen to develop ways of identifying ineffective performance so that we can intervene at an earlier stage. Most importantly, by strengthening capacity and leadership, we are tackling the underlying causes of underperformance and reducing the risk of failure. Our overriding purpose is to support Welsh public services in Wales, improving delivery and reducing costs. The Welsh Government will continue to value public services and to challenge them as well as raise performance and demonstrate how public services are contributing to the economic prosperity and social wellbeing of everyone in Wales.

Wrth symud y rhaglen genedlaethol yn ei blaen, byddwn yn dal ati i weithredu er mwyn ymateb i fethiant sefydliadau unigol lle teimlwn fod angen hynny. Rwy’n awyddus i ddatblygu ffyrdd o nodi perfformiad aneffeithiol fel ein bod yn gallu ymyrryd yn gynharach. Yn bwysicaf oll, drwy gryfhau capasiti ac arweinyddiaeth, rydym yn taclo’r rhesymau sy’n sail i danberfformiad ac yn lleihau’r risg o fethu. Ein pwrpas ar y cyfan yw cefnogi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus Cymreig yng Nghymru, gwella darpariaeth a lleihau costau. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn dal ati i werthfawrogi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac i’w herio yn ogystal â gwella perfformiad a dangos sut mae gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn cyfrannu at ffyniant economaidd a lles cymdeithasol pawb yng Nghymru.  

Gwelliant 1 William Graham

Amendment 1 William Graham

Dileu ‘Yn nodi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen â’i hagenda’

Delete ‘progress on’.

a rhoi yn ei le

‘Yn nodi agenda Llywodraeth Cymru’

Gwelliant 2 William Graham

Amendment 2 William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn gresynu wrth ddiffyg tryloywder cyhoeddiadau blaenorol Llywodraeth Cymru am ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Regrets the lack of transparency of the Welsh Government’s previous announcements on public service reform.

Gwelliant 3 William Graham

Amendment 3 William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn galw am ddadansoddiad wedi’i gostio’n llawn o agenda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Calls for a fully costed analysis of the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform.

Gwelliant 4 William Graham

Amendment 4 William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn modd sy’n dod â’r trydydd sector annibynnol a’r sector cyhoeddus ynghyd, gyda’r dinesydd a’r gymuned yn y canol, gan ymateb i anghenion y cyhoedd a gan leihau’r galw ar wasanaethau eraill drwy ddull gweithredu sy’n edrych ar y gwasanaeth cyfan a chyd-gynhyrchu.

Calls on the Welsh Government to deliver Public Service Reform that brings together the independent third sector and the public sector with the citizen and the community at the centre, responding to public need and reducing demand on other services via a whole service approach and co-production.

Janet Finch-Saunders: I move amendments 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the name of William Graham.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Cynigiaf welliannau 1, 2, 3 a 4 yn enw William Graham.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. I note your comments about strong and democratic accountability. I can see you talking the talk, but it is about how we walk the walk. Many local councils are already collaborating successfully, and this has been done under their own initiative and with the individual and joint needs of the councils in mind. Only local councils themselves can truly know what is best for their business and local need, and this allows local authorities to develop relationships with each other organically and not in a forced and prescriptive way. The example of the education services consortium agreed between Cardiff, Newport, Blaenau Gwent, Monmouthshire and Torfaen councils demonstrates how successful collaboration can be when it is judged by the councils themselves to be of value to their areas. I can confirm that Conwy and Denbighshire county councils work extremely well together and are currently looking at steps to undergo joint scrutiny arrangements.

Diolch am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Rwy’n nodi eich sylwadau am atebolrwydd cryf a democrataidd. Gallaf weld eich bod yn dweud y pethau iawn, ond mae hyn yn ymwneud â gwneud y pethau iawn. Mae llawer o gynghorau lleol yn cydweithio yn barod, a nhw eu hunain sydd wedi penderfynu gwneud hyn gydag anghenion unigol y cynghorau a’u hanghenion ar y cyd mewn golwg. Dim ond cynghorau lleol eu hunain sy’n gwybod beth sydd orau i’w busnes a’u hangen lleol, ac mae hyn yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu perthnasau gyda'i gilydd yn organig ac nid mewn ffordd sydd wedi ei orfodi neu ragnodi. Mae enghraifft y consortiwm gwasanaethau addysg y cytunwyd arno rhwng cynghorau Caerdydd, Casnewydd, Blaenau Gwent, Mynwy a Thor-faen yn dangos pa mor llwyddiannus mae cydweithio’n gallu bod pan fo cynghorau eu hunain yn penderfynu ei fod o werth i’w hardaloedd. Gallaf gadarnhau fod cynghorau Conwy a Sir Ddinbych yn cydweithio’n rhagorol ac yn edrych ar hyn o bryd ar gamau i gael trefniadau craffu ar y cyd. 

4.45 p.m.

I also note what you say about your recent chairmanship of the public services leadership group. As we are talking about democratic accountability, I look forward to seeing the minutes of the meeting quite soon. However, it is not only the Welsh Conservatives who see the problems with these proposals. Councillor Rodney Berman, the leader of Cardiff Council and a Liberal Democrat, has said that the Welsh Government proposals for collaboration may mean that the council has to abort some successful education consortia and work with different local authorities. The lack of transparency in the Welsh Government’s previous announcements on public service reform is simply appalling. The Welsh Government appears to be forging ahead with its own agenda on this without a full and open debate. It is crucial that we fully consult local authorities and other interested parties over their needs and preferences, and on how they feel that they can best collaborate.

Rwyf hefyd yn nodi eich sylwadau am gadeirio’r grŵp arweinyddiaeth gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn ddiweddar. Gan ein bod yn sôn am atebolrwydd democrataidd, rwy’n edrych ymlaen at weld cofnodion y cyfarfod hwnnw cyn bo hir. Fodd bynnag, nid dim ond y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig sy’n gweld problemau gyda’r cynigion hyn. Dywedodd y cynghorydd Rodney Berman, arweinydd Cyngor Caerdydd a Democrat Rhyddfrydol, y gallai cynigion Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer gweithio ar y cyd olygu bod yn rhaid i’r cyngor ddod ag ambell i gonsortiwm addysg llwyddiannus i ben a gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol gwahanol. Mae’r diffyg tryloywder yn natganiadau blaenorol Llywodraeth Cymru yn echrydus. Ymddengys bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen gyda’i hagenda ei hun ar hyn heb gael dadl lawn ac agored. Mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn ymgynghori’n llawn ag awdurdodau lleol a rhanddeiliaid eraill sydd â diddordeb am eu hanghenion a beth sydd orau ganddynt, a sut maent yn teimlo y gallent gydweithio orau.

The eleventh-hour amendments by the Minister for Local Government and Communities were not consulted upon. They will grant unprecedented powers to the Welsh Government over local authorities. The use of an amalgamation Order to achieve effective local government is scandalously undemocratic. Forcing one local authority to collaborate with another is counter-productive to the way in which local government works. Many authorities across Wales are doing this, but they are doing it because they want to, and they, too, have signed up to the efficiency agenda.

Ni ymgynghorwyd ar y gwelliannau funud olaf gan y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau. Byddant yn rhoi pwerau na roddwyd erioed o’r blaen i Lywodraeth Cymru dros awdurdodau lleol. Mae defnyddio Gorchymyn uno i gyflawni llywodraeth leol effeithiol yn gywilyddus o annemocrataidd. Mae gorfodi un awdurdod lleol i gydweithio ag un arall yn wrthgynhyrchiol i’r ffordd mae llywodraeth leol yn gweithio. Mae nifer o awdurdodau ar draws Cymru yn gwneud hyn, ond maent yn ei wneud achos eu bod eisiau, ac maen nhw hefyd am fod yn rhan o’r agenda effeithlonrwydd.

It is called ‘local government’ for a reason. Councils best represent the needs of their communities. There is no clarification on the effective local amalgamation Orders. How on earth should we be convinced that this abstract dream is more desirable than the real results and experiences of those working in local authorities for their local areas? The Welsh Conservatives want to see public service reform that brings together the public sector and an independent third sector, with citizens and communities at the centre. We want to see public service reform responding to public need, we want to see collaboration where demand for other services will be reduced as a result, and where a whole-service approach and co-production work best. We do not want to see unilateral action by the Welsh Government to force collaboration or amalgamation without consultation.

Mae’n cael ei alw yn ‘llywodraeth leol’ am reswm. Cynghorau sy’n cynrychioli anghenion eu cymunedau orau. Nid oes eglurder ar y Gorchmynion uno lleol effeithiol. Sut yn y byd y dylem gael ein darbwyllo bod y freuddwyd haniaethol hon yn well na chanlyniadau go iawn a phrofiadau’r rhai sy’n gweithio mewn ardaloedd lleol i’w hardaloedd lleol? Mae’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am weld diwygiadau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sy’n dod â’r sector cyhoeddus a thrydydd sector annibynnol at ei gilydd, gyda dinasyddion a chymunedau yn y canol. Rydym eisiau gweld diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn ymateb i angen cyhoeddus, rydym eisiau gweld cydweithio lle mae’r galw yn lleihau am wasanaethau eraill o’r herwydd, a lle mae dull gwasanaeth cyfan a chyd-gynhyrchu yn gweithio orau. Nid ydym eisiau gweld camau unochrog gan Lywodraeth Cymru i orfodi cydweithio neu uno heb ymgynghori.

While saving money is desirable, the most important thing is effective public service provision for those who need them the most. This can only truly be determined—

 Er bod arbed arian yn ddymunol, y peth pwysicaf yw darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol i’r rhai sydd eu hangen fwyaf. Ni ellir ond penderfynu ar hyn mewn gwirionedd—

Ann Jones: Janet, you talk about amalgamation and joint working. What happened in Conwy and Denbighshire with the children’s partnership? Conwy pulled out at the very last moment, leaving Denbighshire £50,000 worse off. The only people affected by that were the poorer kids in my area who badly wanted those services. How do you square that with what you said?

Ann Jones: Janet, rydych chi’n sôn am uno a chydweithio. Beth ddigwyddodd yng Nghonwy a Sir Ddinbych gyda’r bartneriaeth plant? Tynnodd Conwy allan ar y funud olaf un, gan adael Sir Ddinbych £50,000 allan o boced. Yr unig rai yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan hynny oedd y plant tlotach yn fy ardal a oedd dirfawr angen y gwasanaethau hynny. Sut ydych chi’n cysoni hynny efo beth ddywedoch chi?

Janet Finch-Saunders: An independent report was carried out that cost £33,000, not £50,000, from what I recall. The report came down—

Janet Finch-Saunders: Cynhyrchwyd adroddiad annibynnol a gostiodd £33,000, nid £50,000, os cofiaf yn iawn. Dywedodd yr adroddiad—

Ann Jones: A sum of £33,000 is okay, is it?

Ann Jones: Mae swm o £33,000 yn iawn, ydy?

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. The point has been answered.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Mae’r pwynt wedi cael ei ateb.

Janet Finch-Saunders: The evidence of that report basically suggested that we in Conwy did not have IT systems able to cope with a joint service in that particular service area. There was other evidence in that report that suggested that it would be better for us to stay as we were. We did not say ‘never’; we said that it was not appropriate at that moment in time.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Awgrymodd dystiolaeth yr adroddiad fwy neu lai nad oedd gennym ni’r systemau TG yng Nghonwy i ymdopi â gwasanaeth ar y cyd yn y maes gwasanaeth arbennig hwnnw. Roedd tystiolaeth arall yn yr adroddiad hwnnw a awgrymodd y byddai’n well i ni aros fel ag yr oeddem. Ni wnaethom ddweud ‘byth’; gwnaethom ddweud nad oedd yn briodol ar yr adeg honno.

Ann Jones: Will you give way on that point again?

Ann Jones: A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad ar y pwynt hwnnw eto?

Janet Finch-Saunders: No.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Na.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. The Member is not giving way, so please sit down, Ann.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Nid yw’r Aelod yn derbyn ymyriad, felly eisteddwch i lawr, Ann.

Janet Finch-Saunders: I will carry on with my speech.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Fe wnaf gario ymlaen gyda fy araith.

Effective public service provision can only truly be determined through honest and open consultation, and by listening to the voices of those on the ground in local authorities. Minister, there is much talk about empowering town and community councils across Wales. What steps are you taking to achieve this? Or is it just talk? Do you acknowledge the north Wales association of town and larger community councils as part of your overall plans for north Wales?

Ni ellir ond penderfynu ar ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau cyhoeddus effeithiol mewn gwirionedd drwy ymgynghori onest ac agored, a thrwy wrando ar leisiau’r rheini ar lawr gwlad mewn awdurdodau lleol. Weinidog, mae llawer o sôn am rymuso cynghorau tref a  chymunedol ledled Cymru. Pa gamau ydych chi’n eu cymryd i wneud hyn? Neu ai dim ond siarad ydyw? A ydych yn cydnabod cymdeithas cynghorau tref a chynghorau cymunedol mwy o faint yng ngogledd Cymru fel rhan o’ch cynlluniau cyffredinol ar gyfer gogledd Cymru?  

Gwelliant 5 Peter Black

Amendment 5 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn credu y dylai agenda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gael ffocws clir ar leihau’r bwlch gwariant ar ysgolion rhwng Cymru a Lloegr.

Believes that the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform should have a clear focus on reducing the schools spending gap between England and Wales.

Gwelliant 6 Peter Black

Amendment 6 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn nodi â phryder ddull gweithredu anghyson Llywodraeth Cymru o ran cydweithio wrth gyflenwi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Notes with concern the Welsh Government’s inconsistent approach to collaboration in the delivery of public services.

Gwelliant 7 Peter Black

Amendment 7 Peter Black

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn gresynu nad yw agenda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus wedi cael ei gwneud yn glir ac yn credu y dylai ganolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau yn hytrach nag ar y broses o ddiwygio.

Regrets the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform has not been made clear and believes that it should be focused on outcomes rather than process.

Peter Black: I move amendments 5, 6 and 7 in my name.

Peter Black: Cynigiaf welliannau 5, 6 a 7 yn fy enw i.

I will start by stating bluntly that public service reform, in my view, could be the issue that defines this Assembly. I understand that the Minister has set the issue out in those terms. Tackling this issue is necessary because of the period of austerity forced upon us by a combination of a recession and a decade of deficit financing by the previous Labour Government. This is focusing political minds on how to reduce costs in public service delivery, with a desire to reduce bureaucracy rather than front-line services. This is not the only reason for seeking reform of public services. It is not enough to seek to mitigate the impact of spending cuts; reform must deliver improvements. The best example of this is in education, as noted in amendment 5.

Rwyf am ddechrau drwy ddweud yn blwmp ac yn blaen y gallai diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, yn fy marn i, fod yn bwnc a fydd yn diffinio’r Cynulliad hwn. Rwy’n deall fod y Gweinidog wedi amlinellu’r mater yn y termau hynny. Mae angen taclo’r mater hwn achos y cyfnod o lymder a orfodwyd arnom gan gyfuniad o ddirwasgiad a degawd o gyllido diffyg gan y Llywodraeth Lafur flaenorol. Mae hyn yn ffocysu meddyliau gwleidyddol ar sut i leihau costau o ran darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, gyda dymuniad i leihau biwrocratiaeth yn hytrach na gwasanaethau rheng flaen. Nid dyna’r unig reswm dros geisio diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Nid yw’n ddigon i geisio lliniaru effaith y toriadau ar wariant; rhaid i ddiwygio gyflawni gwelliannau. Mewn addysg mae’r  enghraifft orau o hyn, fel y nodir yng ngwelliant 5.

The spending gap was not created after budgets began to fall—it was growing well before that. This is a case study of public service failure, in my view. Administrative savings must be directed to reform public services, and not held back for side projects or put into a central pot. The Government has indicated that it intends to take this seriously, but it has yet to provide any detail on how it intends to do this. I am not aware of any official Government response to the Simpson report, for example, although the Minister alluded to that in his speech. The Government has also not announced a way forward on its manifesto commitment to establish an independent commission to review the governance and delivery arrangements of public services.

Ni chafodd y bwlch gwariant ei greu ar ôl i gyllidebau ddechrau lleihau—roedd yn tyfu ymhell cyn hynny. Astudiaeth achos o fethiant gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yw hyn, yn fy marn i. Mae’n rhaid cyfeirio arbedion gweinyddol at ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac nid eu cadw wrth gefn ar gyfer prosiectau ar yr ochr na’u rhoi mewn cronfa ganolog. Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi dweud ei fod yn bwriadu cymryd hyn o ddifrif, ond nid yw wedi manylu eto ar sut mae’n bwriadu gwneud hyn. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw ymateb swyddogol gan y Llywodraeth i adroddiad Simpson, er enghraifft, er bod y Gweinidog wedi cyfeirio at hynny yn ei araith. Nid yw’r Llywodraeth ychwaith wedi cyhoeddi ffordd ymlaen ar ei hymrwymiad maniffesto i sefydlu comisiwn annibynnol i adolygu’r trefniadau llywodraethu a chyflawni sydd gan wasanaethau cyhoeddus.  

Amendment 7 seeks to ensure clarity on this reform agenda. We will also support amendments 2 and 3, which build on this approach. There is a need for an overall plan for public service reform across the Welsh Government, because its current approach is patchy. For example, the Government report published last week on public service reform and promoting regional coherence identified six areas of collaboration and four different areas for education, despite the fact that education is primarily delivered by local authorities. Health board areas do not necessarily line up with the proposed regional collaboration areas.

Mae gwelliant 7 yn ceisio sicrhau bod yr agenda ddiwygio hon yn eglur. Byddwn hefyd yn cefnogi gwelliannau 2 a 3, sy’n datblygu’r ymagwedd hon. Mae angen cynllun cyffredinol ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru, gan fod ei hymagwedd bresennol yn dameidiog. Er enghraifft, nododd adroddiad y Llywodraeth ar ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a hybu cydlyniant rhanbarthol a gyhoeddwyd wythnos diwethaf bod chwech maes ar gyfer cydweithio a phedair maes gwahanol ar gyfer addysg, er bod addysg yn cael ei ddarparu gan awdurdodau lleol yn bennaf. Nid yw ardaloedd byrddau iechyd o anghenraid yn cyd-fynd â’r ardaloedd arfaethedig ar gyfer cydweithio rhanbarthol.

It is also wrong-headed to see joint chief executives as the answer to all of the problems faced by local government. It is rich from a Government that still employs former NHS directors on salaries well beyond their current role to lecture anyone on rates of staff pay, which represents just a small fraction of a council’s budget. It is the epitome of focusing on a token agenda rather than spending time addressing the fundamental structural changes needed for educational collaboration, for example.

Mae hefyd yn gyfeiliornus i ystyried mai’r ateb i bob problem a wynebir gan lywodraeth leol yw prif weithredwr ar y cyd. Mae’n dipyn o beth i Lywodraeth sydd dal yn cyflogi cyn-gyfarwyddwyr GIG ar gyflogau ymhell tu hwnt i’w rôl bresennol i roi darlith i neb ar gyflog staff, sydd ond yn rhan fach o gyllideb cyngor. Mae’n crynhoi’r duedd i ganolbwyntio ar agenda symbolaidd yn hytrach na threulio amser yn ymdrin â’r newid strwythurol sylfaenol sydd ei angen ar gyfer cydweithio addysgol, er enghraifft.

I want to make two brief points about local government collaboration. The first is that local government and the health service offer the best opportunity to reform public services through better working. The close link between healthcare and social services is obvious, and that is why reform along the lines of the Gwent frailty project, which I also referred to last week, improves services but also reduces costs. However, even co-ordination between the NHS and social services can be troublesome, as the example of Powys shows. The co-ordination between the council and the local health board has been dogged by conflict over debt and governance—an issue that the Government needs to address.

Fe wnaf ddau bwynt byr ar gydweithio llywodraeth leol. Y cyntaf yw bod llywodraeth leol a’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn cynnig y cyfle gorau i ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus drwy weithio’n well. Mae’r cysylltiad agos rhwng gofal iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn amlwg, a dyna pam fod diwygio tebyg i brosiect eiddilwch Gwent, y gwneuthum gyfeirio ato'r wythnos diwethaf, yn gwella gwasanaethau ond hefyd yn lleihau costau. Er hynny, mae cydlynu hyd yn oed rhwng y GIG a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn gallu bod yn drafferthus, fel y dengys enghraifft Powys. Mae’r cydlynu rhwng y cyngor a’r bwrdd iechyd lleol wedi bod yn destun gwrthdaro dros ddyled a llywodraethu—rhywbeth y dylai’r Llywodraeth ymdrin ag ef.

There are two things to note here. First, reform needs to be accompanied further by strong governance arrangements, and that includes accountability. Assembly Members, councils and citizens must know who is responsible, who to complain to when things go wrong and who to vote out of office if they want change. It is only with that accountability that services really improve. Secondly, the reform agenda must be focused on outcomes and not processes, and the Government must publish targets that reflect this. Do not just tell us how many senior managers you want to see removed or how few regional consortia you want; tell us by how much school results will improve or by how much ambulance response times will fall.

Mae dau beth i’w nodi yn y fan hyn. Yn gyntaf, mae angen i drefniadau llywodraethu cryf ddod yn sgîl diwygio, ac mae hynny’n cynnwys atebolrwydd. Rhaid i Aelodau’r Cynulliad, cynghorau a dinasyddion wybod pwy sy’n gyfrifol, wrth bwy i gwyno pan  mae pethau yn mynd o’i le a phwy i bleidleisio yn eu herbyn os ydynt eisiau newid. Dim ond gyda’r atebolrwydd hwnnw mae gwasanaethau’n newid go iawn. Yn ail, rhaid i’r agenda ddiwygio ganolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau nid prosesau, a rhaid i’r Llywodraeth gyhoeddi targedau sy’n adlewyrchu hyn. Peidiwch â dim ond dweud wrthym faint o uwch reolwyr rydych yn bwriadu cael eu gwared na faint o gonsortia rhanbarthol rydych am eu cael; dywedwch wrthym sut bydd canlyniadau ysgolion yn gwella neu faint yn llai bydd amseroedd ymateb gan ambiwlansys.

When people wait for an ambulance in rural Wales longer than they do in rural Scotland, when people wait six months for hospital treatment in Wales but only wait for 16 weeks in England, despite Wales spending more money on the NHS, when the Welsh Government decides that enterprise zones are a good idea after all a full six months after they were announced in England, and when Wales is the poorest nation or region in the United Kingdom, and getting relatively poorer, we know that the Government is failing on the basics of public service delivery—the outcomes that people expect and deserve from the billions of pounds of public money that it spends.  By all means talk about getting the processes right, but until you are able to deliver on the outcomes, you will continue to let down the people of Wales.

Pan fo pobl yn aros am ambiwlans yng nghefn gwlad Cymru yn hirach nag maent yng nghefn gwlad yr Alban, pan fo pobl yn aros chwe mis am driniaeth ysbyty yng Nghymru ond dim ond am 16 wythnos yn Lloegr, er bod Cymru’n gwario mwy ar y GIG, pan fo Llywodraeth Cymru yn penderfynu bod parthau menter yn syniad da wedi’r cyfan chwe mis llawn ar ôl cael eu cyhoeddi yn Lloegr, a phan mai Cymru yw’r genedl neu ranbarth tlotaf yn Deyrnas Unedig, ac yn mynd yn gymharol dlotach, gwyddom fod y Llywodraeth yn methu â darparu sylfeini gwasanaethau cyhoeddus-y canlyniadau mae pobl yn eu disgwyl ac yn haeddu o’r biliynau o bunnoedd o arian cyhoeddus mae’n ei wario. Ar bob cyfrif soniwch am gael y prosesau’n gywir, ond hyd nes eich bod yn gallu cyflawni’r canlyniadau, byddwch yn parhau i siomi pobl Cymru. 

Gwelliant 8 Jocelyn Davies

Amendment 8 Jocelyn Davies

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add as new point at end of motion:

Yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd sicrhau cyllid teg er mwyn gallu darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn effeithiol.

Recognises the importance of securing fair funding in order to achieve effective public service delivery.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Cynigiaf welliant 8 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: I move amendment 8 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Mae gwelliant 8 yn gosod y ddadl hon o fewn ei chyd-destun priodol. Mae’n ymwneud â chyllid; fel y gwyddom i gyd, cyflwynwyd toriadau gan y glymblaid yn San Steffan a fydd yn effeithio’n uniongyrchol ar wasanaethau yng Nghymru. Dyna pam, Weinidog, mae gennym i gyd gymaint o ddiddordeb yn eich bwriadau chi a’ch cyd-Weinidogion ar ddarparu gwasanaethau yng Nghymru. Yr her fawr i’r Llywodraeth yw diogelu’r gwasanaethau hynny yn y cyfnod economaidd anodd hwn. Fel y dywedais yr wythnos diwethaf, Weinidog, pe baech yn gallu ein hargyhoeddi o’r hyn yr ydych yn ceisio ei gyflawni, mae’n bosibl y byddech yn cael ein cefnogaeth.

Amendment 8 sets this debate in its proper context. It deals with funding; as we all know, the Westminster coalition has introduced cuts that will have a direct impact on services in Wales. That is why, Minister, we all have so much interest in your intentions, as well as those of your fellow Ministers, for providing services in Wales. The big challenge for the Government is to safeguard those services in this economically difficult time. As I said last week, Minister, if you could convince us of what you are trying to achieve, it is possible that you would gain our support.

Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 a 7, yn ogystal â gwelliant 8. Ni fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant 5, gan na lwyddodd Peter Black, wrth ei gyflwyno, i’n hargyhoeddi o beth yn union y gobeithir ei gyflawni gan y gwelliant hwnnw. Mae’r gymhariaeth barhaol hon gyda Lloegr, gan anwybyddu’r hyn sydd angen ei gyflawni yng Nghymru, a meddwl ei fod yn fater syml o sicrhau bod y cyllid yng Nghymru yn union yr un fath ag yn Lloegr, yn gamarweiniol. Beth yw’r pwynt o gael datganoli os mai’r cyfan yr ydym yn ceisio ei wneud yw ailadrodd yn slafaidd yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn Lloegr?

We will support amendments 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7, as well as amendment 8. We will not support amendment 5, as Peter Black did not, in his speech, convince us of what exactly it is trying to achieve. This constant comparison with England, thinking it is only a matter of ensuring that the money spent in Wales is exactly the same as in England, is misleading. What is the point of devolution if you are only going to slavishly follow what happens in England?

Mae’r cynnig sydd wedi ei osod braidd yn gamarweiniol, Weinidog. Nid wyf wedi clywed unrhyw beth gennych heddiw am ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Yr wyf wedi clywed am strwythurau a phrosesau, ac, unwaith yn rhagor, eich bod yn mynnu mai’r hyn sydd angen ei wneud i ateb y broblem hon yw uno swyddi mewn awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru. Ond, fel y dywedodd Peter Black, ni fyddai gwneud hynny yn arbed cymaint â hynny o arian yng nghyd-destun y swm sy’n cael ei wario ar ddarparu gwasanaethau yng Nghymru. Mater ariannol bach fyddai hynny. Mae’n rhaid ichi gynnig darlun llawer ehangach inni o’r ffordd yr ydych yn bwriadu darparu’r gwasanaethau hynny.

The motion before us is a little misleading, Minister. I have heard nothing from you today about reforming public services. I have heard about structures and processes, and, once again, that you insist that what is needed to solve the problem is to merge senior posts within Welsh local authorities. However, as Peter Black said, that would not save a great deal of money in the context of the sum spent on providing services in Wales. It would be a small sum. You must come up with a much clearer picture of how you intend to provide those services.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedasoch wrthym, wrth inni eich cwestiynu yn weddol feirniadol, y dylem edrych ar dudalen 27 maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur ar gyfer etholiadau’r Cynulliad. Edrychais ar y dudalen honno. Yr wyf yn ymddiheuro ymlaen llaw i’r cyfieithwyr; os ydynt yn llwyddo i gyfieithu’r hyn yr wyf yn ei ddarllen yn y Gymraeg yn awr, mae ganddynt well gafael ar y ddwy iaith nag sydd gennyf i.

Last week, as we critically questioned you, you told us that we should look at page 27 of the Labour Party’s manifesto for the Assembly elections. I looked at that page. I apologise beforehand to the translators; if they are able to translate what I am about to read in Welsh, their grasp of both languages is better than mine.

‘Rydym yn credu bod gan sefydliadau dielw fel cymdeithasau cydfuddiannol, mentrau cymdeithasol a chydweithfeydd, rôl allweddol i’w chwarae yn yr economi ac yn ategu darpariaeth gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.’

‘We believe that not-for-profit organisations such as mutuals, social enterprises and co-operatives have a key role to play in the economy and in complementing the provision of public services.’

Dyna’r ateb, mae’n debyg, ar dudalen 27 o faniffesto’r Blaid Lafur. Mae’n rhaid imi gyfaddef, Weinidog, ei fod yn swnio, hyd y gallaf ei ddeall, yn debyg i syniad David Cameron am y gymdeithas fawr. Mae yr un mor annelwig ac amherthnasol i anghenion Cymru â hwnnw. Mae’n rhaid ichi fel Llywodraeth gyflwyno rhyw fath o eglurder ynglŷn â’r hyn yr ydych yn ceisio ei gyflawni.

That, it seems, is the answer according to page 27 of the Labour Party’s manifesto. I must admit, Minister, that, from my understanding of it, it sounds very similar to David Cameron’s big society. It is just as vague and irrelevant to Wales’s needs. You, as a Government, will have to give us some clarity on what you are trying to achieve.

Trof yn awr at yr holl gonsortia sydd i’w cael yng Nghymru. Mae chwe chonsortiwm i ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd, sydd ychydig yn od gan fod gennym saith bwrdd iechyd lleol, ond gallwn dderbyn hynny, pedwar consortiwm i ddarparu gwasanaethau addysg, tri chonsortiwm i ddarparu gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, consortiwm hollol wahanol ar gyfer trafnidiaeth, ac, wrth gwrs, mae delio â gwasanaethau gwastraff yn ddibynnol ar gytundebau a wnaed gan awdurdodau lleol na ellir eu newid—byddai ceisio eu newid yn arwain at broblemau enfawr ichi. Yn ogystal â 22 awdurdod lleol yn ceisio darparu gwasanaethau, yr ydych wedi ychwanegu at hynny. Bellach, mae gennym 30 a mwy o sefydliadau yng Nghymru sydd yn ceisio darparu gwasanaethau. Mae’n rhaid inni gael eglurder oddi wrthych ar y mater hwn, Weinidog, ac mae’n rhaid ichi amlinellu eich bwriadau yn glir.

I now turn to all the consortia that we have in Wales. There are six consortia to provide health services, which is rather strange given that we have seven local health boards, but we can accept that, four consortia to provide education services, three consortia to provide social services, a completely different consortium for transport, and, of course, waste services are dependent on contracts set up by local authorities that cannot be altered—trying to change them would lead to huge problems for you. In addition to 22 local authorities trying to provide services, you have added more. We now have more than 30 organisations in Wales trying to provide services. We must have clarity from you on this issue, Minister, and you must clearly outline your intentions.

Mike Hedges: I want to make five points. The first is about the advantage of sharing back-office services, such as payroll. We have talked about sharing lots of other things, but payroll is easily shared. The same methodology is used to pay teachers in Cardiff, Conwy and Carmarthen. The methodology for paying a social worker is the same in Pembrokeshire as it is in Port Talbot. There are huge savings to be made, not just in revenue costs, which come in through the advantage of economies of scale, but in the associated IT costs. Huge IT costs have been built up by local authorities through contracts that inevitably involve upgrading every four, five or six years. There are huge savings that can be made there.

Mike Hedges: Rwyf eisiau gwneud pum pwynt. Mae’r cyntaf am y fantais o rannu gwasanaethau swyddfa gefn, fel y gyflogres. Rydym wedi sôn am rannu llawer o bethau eraill, ond mae’n hawdd rhannu’r gyflogres. Defnyddir yr un fethodoleg i dalu athrawon yng Nghaerdydd, Conwy a Chaerfyrddin. Yr un yw’r fethodoleg i dalu gweithiwr cymdeithasol yn Sir Benfro a Phort Talbot. Mae modd gwneud arbedion anferth, nid dim ond o ran costau refeniw, a ddaw oherwydd y fantais o gael arbedion maint, ond hefyd o ran y costau TG cysylltiedig. Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi creu costau TG anferth drwy gontractau sydd yn anochel yn golygu uwchraddio bob pedair, pump neu chwe blynedd. Gellir gwneud arbedion anferth yn y fan honno.

5.00 p.m.

My second point is that no debate here is complete unless we talk about what is happening in Scotland. Eight Scottish councils are working on plans to share key services in a bid to save £70 million over five years. West and East Dunbartonshire, Inverclyde, East Renfrewshire, Renfrewshire, Glasgow and North and South Lanarkshire will share waste management, social transport, social care, IT and other support services, in order to save up to £70 million over five years. This idea of collaboration is therefore not unique to Wales. I would also mention that three London boroughs are looking to work together, but my experience of the Chamber is that what is happening in Scotland seems to take precedence.

Fy ail bwynt yw nad oes unrhyw ddadl yma yn gyflawn oni bai ein bod yn siarad am yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn yr Alban. Mae wyth o gynghorau yn yr Alban yn gweithio ar gynlluniau i rannu gwasanaethau allweddol mewn ymgais i arbed £70 miliwn dros bum mlynedd. Bydd Gorllewin a Dwyrain Swydd Dunbarton, Inverclyde, Dwyrain Swydd Renfrew, Swydd Renfrew, Glasgow a Gogledd a De Swydd Lanark yn rhannu rheoli gwastraff, trafnidiaeth gymdeithasol, gofal cymdeithasol, TG a gwasanaethau cymorth eraill, er mwyn arbed hyd at £70 miliwn dros bum mlynedd. Felly, nid yw’r syniad hwn o gydweithio yn unigryw i Gymru. Byddwn hefyd yn crybwyll bod tair bwrdeistref yn Llundain yn awyddus i weithio gyda’i gilydd, ond o fy mhrofiad o’r Siambr, ymddengys bod yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn yr Alban yn cael blaenoriaeth.

We talk about the funding of pupils in Wales, and it is true that the average funding gap between England and Wales is £604 per pupil. However, that includes London, which most people would accept is a special case. If London is discounted, that brings the gap down to just over £400 per pupil. However, the more interesting fact is the variation within Wales: funding per pupil in Ceredigion is £6,340; in the Vale of Glamorgan it is just over £5,000. The variation within Wales is double the difference between England and Wales. That is a matter that needs looking at.

Rydym yn sôn am gyllido disgyblion yng Nghymru, ac mae’n wir mai’r bwlch cyllido cyfartalog rhwng Cymru a Lloegr yw £604 fesul disgybl. Fodd bynnag, mae hynny’n cynnwys Llundain, a byddai’r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn derbyn ei fod yn achos arbennig. Os nad ydym yn cynnwys Llundain, mae’n dod â’r bwlch i lawr i ychydig dros £400 y disgybl. Fodd bynnag, y ffaith fwy diddorol yw’r amrywiad o fewn Cymru: mae’r cyllid fesul disgybl yng Ngheredigion yn £6,340; ym Mro Morgannwg, mae’n ychydig dros £5,000. Mae’r amrywiad o fewn Cymru yn ddwbl y gwahaniaeth rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Mae hynny’n fater y mae angen edrych arno.

It is almost a circular argument: because money is devolved to local authorities, they spend it, as is their right, on other things, and then they end up complaining that there is not enough money going into education. I can only speak about the City and County of Swansea Council; it has reduced the amount it spends on education over the last eight years by 1 per cent.

Mae bron yn ddadl gylchol: gan fod arian yn cael ei ddatganoli i awdurdodau lleol, maent yn ei wario, fel y mae eu hawl, ar bethau eraill, ac yna maent, yn y pen draw, yn cwyno nad oes digon o arian yn mynd i mewn i addysg. Ni allaf ond siarad am Ddinas a Sir Abertawe; mae wedi lleihau’r swm y mae’n ei wario ar addysg dros yr wyth mlynedd diwethaf o 1 y cant.

Peter Black: You know, of course, that Swansea council has increased the amount spent on education over and above what it was asked to do, and it has also created a literacy fund.

Peter Black: Rydych yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, fod cyngor Abertawe wedi cynyddu’r swm a wariwyd ar addysg ar ben yr hyn yr oedd yn gofyn iddo ei wneud, ac mae hefyd wedi creu cronfa llythrennedd.

Mike Hedges: You will also be aware that, the year before, it took £2 million out of education. [Interruption.] It is.

Mike Hedges: Byddwch yn ymwybodol hefyd ei fod, y flwyddyn cynt, wedi cymryd £2 miliwn allan o addysg. [Torri ar draws.] Ydy.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. This is not a private conversation. You have made an intervention, Peter, and it has been answered.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Nid yw hon yn sgwrs breifat. Yr ydych wedi gwneud ymyriad, Peter, ac mae wedi cael ei hateb.

Mike Hedges: We will probably speak about this again tomorrow afternoon, actually. This variation between local authorities in Wales is important, and needs to be addressed. It is not accounted for by the standard spending assessments. It is key that we look at that.

Mike Hedges: Byddwn yn fwy na thebyg yn siarad am hyn eto brynhawn yfory, mewn gwirionedd. Mae’r amrywiaeth rhwng awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn bwysig, ac mae angen rhoi sylw iddo. Nid yw’n cael ei gyfrif gan yr asesiadau o wariant safonol. Mae’n allweddol ein bod yn edrych ar hynny.

I will now look at the benefits of regional working. There are 22 directors of social services, and 22 directors of education, where there used to be eight. They multiplied overnight under local government reorganisation, with additional assistants and deputies. That came at a huge cost, but more important was what was lost. I will not talk just about money, because there are more important things than money, such as people. What was lost was teams and teamwork, which is what collaboration means to me. This is not just about saving money by sharing.

Byddaf yn awr yn edrych ar y manteision o weithio rhanbarthol. Mae 22 o gyfarwyddwyr y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, a 22 cyfarwyddwr addysg, lle’r oedd arfer bod wyth. Bu iddynt luosi dros nos o dan ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol, gyda chynorthwywyr a dirprwyon ychwanegol. Daeth hynny â chost enfawr, ond yn fwy pwysig oedd yr hyn a gollwyd. Ni fyddaf yn siarad yn unig am arian, oherwydd mae pethau pwysicach nag arian, fel pobl. Yr hyn oedd ar goll oedd timau a gwaith tîm, sef yr hyn y mae cydweithredu yn ei olygu i mi. Nid yw hyn yn unig am arbed arian drwy rannu.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: While you are telling us about these various layers that are being created in Wales, could you remind me who created 22 local health boards in Wales?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Wrth ichi ddweud wrthym am y gwahanol haenau hyn sy’n cael eu creu yng Nghymru, a allech fy atgoffa pwy greodd 22 bwrdd iechyd lleol yng Nghymru?

Mike Hedges: I can tell you who created 22 local authorities in Wales: the Conservatives. The 22 local health boards were created to mirror them. As to whether that was a good idea or a bad one, I do not want to comment— [Laughter.] That is on the grounds that I do not have the knowledge to do so. [Interruption.] I have noticed that.

Mike Hedges: Gallaf ddweud wrthych pwy greodd 22 awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru: y Ceidwadwyr. Crëwyd y 22 o fyrddau iechyd lleol i’w hadlewyrchu. O ran pa un a oedd hynny’n syniad da neu ddrwg, nid wyf am wneud sylw— [Chwerthin.] Mae hynny ar y sail nad oes gennyf y wybodaeth i wneud hynny. [Torri ar draws.]  Rwyf wedi sylwi ar hynny.

This is about improving services and having people work together. Tomorrow, I hope that Members will stay to listen to me talk about hearing loss in the short debate. What happened with local government reorganisation was that, where there were previously teams of two or three looking after people with hearing loss, suddenly there was one person in each authority. That has been mirrored across a range of services: instead of a team approach, with people working with each other, you have one person—or, in the worst cases, half a person—with responsibility for an issue. The advantages of people working together go beyond economies of scale. I therefore think the Government is moving in the right direction, and I certainly support it.

Mae hyn yn ymwneud â gwella gwasanaethau a chael pobl i weithio gyda’i gilydd. Yfory, yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd Aelodau yn aros i wrando arnaf yn siarad am golli clyw yn y ddadl fer. Beth ddigwyddodd gydag ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol oedd, lle’r oedd o’r blaen timau o ddau neu dri yn gofalu am bobl â nam ar y clyw, yn sydyn roedd un person ym mhob awdurdod. Mae hynny wedi cael ei adlewyrchu ar draws ystod o wasanaethau: yn hytrach na dull tîm, gyda phobl sy’n gweithio gyda’i gilydd, mae gennych un person—neu, yn yr achosion gwaethaf, hanner person—â chyfrifoldeb am broblem. Pan fydd pobl yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd, ceir manteision sy’n mynd y tu hwnt i arbedion maint. Felly, yr wyf yn meddwl bod y Llywodraeth yn symud i’r cyfeiriad cywir, ac yr wyf yn sicr yn ei gefnogi.

Byron Davies: I rise to support the amendments in the name of William Graham by making a few brief but important points. This debate is extremely timely, and I hope that the Government can support our amendments. After all, we are only calling for a full, costed analysis of the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform. It is surely common sense and only right to publish that information, given your Government’s stated open and transparent agenda.

Byron Davies: Yr wyf yn codi i gefnogi’r gwelliannau yn enw William Graham drwy wneud ychydig o bwyntiau byr ond bwysig. Mae’r ddadl hon yn eithriadol o amserol, ac yr wyf yn gobeithio y gall y Llywodraeth gefnogi ein gwelliannau. Wedi’r cyfan, rydym ond yn galw am, ddadansoddiad llawn wedi’i gostio o agenda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae’n sicr yn gwneud synnwyr cyffredin ac ond yn iawn i gyhoeddi’r wybodaeth honno, o ystyried yr agenda agored a thryloyw y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi’i ddatgan.

We also want the Government to recognise the importance of the independent third sector in delivering your public service reform. Public service reform offers great potential to bring together the independent third sector and the public sector, with the citizen and the community at the centre. That would not only, in my view, enhance our public services and align them automatically with the needs of our citizens, but allow other organisations to add value to our services.

Rydym hefyd am i’r Llywodraeth gydnabod pwysigrwydd y trydydd sector annibynnol wrth gyflawni eich diwygio o’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn cynnig potensial mawr i ddwyn ynghyd y trydydd sector annibynnol a’r sector cyhoeddus, gyda’r dinesydd a’r gymuned yn y canol. Byddai nid yn unig, yn fy marn i, yn gwella ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac yn eu cysoni’n awtomatig gydag anghenion ein dinasyddion, ond yn caniatáu i sefydliadau eraill ychwanegu gwerth at ein gwasanaethau.

We recognise on this side of the Chamber the great challenges that your Government faces in the coming years, and we will not shirk from supporting your decisions where we agree with them. Let there be no doubt that you will need that kind of consensus, inside and outside of this Chamber, to pass any legislation or, indeed, your budget.

Rydym yn cydnabod ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr yr heriau mawr y mae eich Llywodraeth yn eu hwynebu yn y blynyddoedd nesaf, ac ni fyddwn yn osgoi cefnogi eich penderfyniadau lle rydym yn cytuno â nhw. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth y bydd angen y math hwnnw o gonsensws arnoch, y tu mewn a’r tu allan i’r Siambr hon, i basio unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth neu, yn wir, eich cyllideb.

Your Government must be built on transparency, openness and honesty. Indeed, it is with deep regret that we note the lack of transparency in your Government’s previous announcements on public service reform. The people of Wales will no longer sit by and allow the Welsh Government to point the finger of blame down the M4 at Westminster. Your Welsh Labour Government has been given the tools to get on with the job by the people of Wales. We now sit in a full law-making Assembly. Alas, no party secured a majority at the last election, and your Government can ill afford to grandstand on important issues such as public service reform, because you will fail to secure the consensus to deliver.

Mae’n rhaid i’ch Llywodraeth gael ei adeiladu ar dryloywder, ar fod yn agored ac yn onest. Yn wir, rwy’n nodi gyda gofid dwfn y diffyg tryloywder yng nghyhoeddiadau blaenorol eich Llywodraeth ar ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Ni fydd bobl Cymru bellach yn eistedd yn ôl a chaniatáu i Lywodraeth Cymru bwyntio bys i lawr yr M4 at San Steffan. Mae eich Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru wedi cael yr offer i fynd ymlaen â’r gwaith gan bobl Cymru. Rydym bellach yn eistedd mewn Cynulliad deddfu llawn. Ysywaeth, ni sicrhaodd unrhyw blaid fwyafrif yn yr etholiad diwethaf, ac ni all eich Llywodraeth fforddio gwneud gorchest ar faterion pwysig megis diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, oherwydd byddwch yn methu â sicrhau’r consensws i gyflawni.

I am sure that, across this Chamber, we stand ready to serve our communities. The ball is now clearly in the Labour Welsh Government’s court. We should all take note of how it treats this Chamber and of whether it indeed tries to build consensus through openness, honesty and transparency or whether it fails in that regard. These are very real challenges and there are very real issues in public service reform. I therefore urge the Labour Welsh Government not to drop the ball en route to the try line.

Yr wyf yn sicr, ar draws y Siambr hon, ein bod yn barod i wasanaethu ein cymunedau. Tro Llywodraeth Cymru Llafur yw hi yn nawr. Dylem i gyd nodi sut y mae’n trin y Siambr hon ac a yw’n wir yn ceisio adeiladu consensws drwy fod yn agored, yn onest ac yn dryloyw, neu a yw’n methu yn hynny o beth. Mae’r rhain yn heriau go iawn ac y mae materion gwirioneddol yn diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Yr wyf felly’n annog Llywodraeth Cymru Lafur i beidio â gollwng y bêl ar y ffordd i’r llinell gais.

Keith Davies: Am y tro cyntaf, credaf fod edrych ar lywodraeth leol yn rhan o’n cyfrifoldebau yng Nghymru. Dechreuais weithio yn yr hen Forgannwg, ond, gyda’r ad-drefnu, yr oeddwn yn gweithio i Forgannwg Ganol, ac wedyn, gydag ad-drefnu pellach yn 1996, i sir Gâr. Yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn 1996 oedd inni gael ein gorfodi i gael 22 awdurdod yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, a wyddoch chi beth ddigwyddodd yn Lloegr? Wrth ad-drefnu yno, penderfynwyd bod rhaid i bob sir newydd gael o leiaf 300,000 o boblogaeth. Bu ffraeo mawr ymysg ei gilydd yno, ac ni chyflawnwyd yr ad-drefnu yn Lloegr— [Torri ar draws.] Na, y Ceidwadwyr oedd mewn grym yn 1996. Fodd bynnag, cafodd yr ad-drefnu ei gyflwyno yng Nghymru, ac, o ganlyniad, un yn unig o’r holl siroedd yng Nghymru oedd â 300,000 o boblogaeth, sef Caerdydd. Fel y soniodd Mike heddiw, a Julie yr wythnos diwethaf, golyga hynny nad yw’r arbenigedd ar gael, ond nid yw’r awdurdodau’n sylweddoli hynny ac maent yn ceisio penodi eu pobl eu hunain. Mae cost rhedeg gwasanaethau mewn sir fach yn ofnadwy—mae’r un peth yn wir am ysgolion bach. Cymharodd Mike Ceredigion â’r Fro, ac, yn wir, cofiaf ddweud unwaith wrth brifathro un o ysgolion uwchradd y Fro, pe bai ei ysgol ef yng Ngheredigion, y byddai’n cael £750 y pen am ei 1,000 o fyfyrwyr—sy’n £0.75 miliwn o gyllid. Felly, siroedd bach yw’r broblem.

Keith Davies: For the first time, I think that looking at local government is part of our responsibilities in Wales. I began work in Glamorgan, but, with the reorganisation, I was working for Mid Glamorgan, and then, with further reorganisation in 1996, for Carmarthenshire. What happened in 1996 was that we were forced to have 22 authorities in Wales. However, do you know what happened in England? With the reorganisation there, it was decided that every new county had to have a population of at least 300,000. There was a great deal of argument among themselves there, and the reorganisation was not achieved in England— [Interruption.] No, it was the Conservatives in 1996. However, reorganisation was introduced in Wales, and, as a result, only one of all the counties in Wales had a population of 300,000, which was Cardiff. As Mike mentioned today, and Julie mentioned last week, that means that the expertise is not available, but the authorities do not realise that and they try to appoint their own people. The cost of running services in a small county is dreadful—the same is true of small schools. Mike compared Ceredigion and the Vale, and, indeed, I remember saying once to a headteacher in one of the secondary schools in the Vale that, if his school were in Ceredigion, he would get £750 a head for his 1,000 students—which is a budget of £0.75 million. Therefore, small counties are a problem.

Mae’n rhaid inni newid, ond bu inni ruthro i mewn i’r peth yn 1996. Soniodd Peter Black yn gynharach am y costau sy’n codi yn y siroedd wrth iddynt ad-drefnu a gwerthuso swyddi. Yr oeddwn mewn cyfarfod ag Unsain yn sir Gâr nos Lun, a’r hyn a oedd yn glir oedd eu bod yn cymysgu’r ddau beth gyda’i gilydd, sef gwerthuso swyddi ac edrych ar yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn 1996, sef bod pedair sir wedi dod at ei gilydd gyda chyflogau pobl a’u hamodau gwaith yn wahanol. Mae’r rheini wedi cael eu hamddiffyn ers 1996 ac mae problem enfawr yn codi’n awr gyda phobl yn colli cyflog. Dyna’r broblem, efallai, ym Mhen-y-bont, fel yr oedd Peter Black yn sôn yn gynharach, ond yn sicr dyna’r broblem yn sir Gâr, lle mae pobl y cwrddais â nhw nos Lun, y buont yn gweithio yno am dros 20 mlynedd—menywod yw’r rhan fwyaf ohonynt—yn colli £7,000 y flwyddyn. Ar ben hyn oll, bydd yr hyn y mae’r Ceidwadwyr yn ei wneud yn Lloegr yn effeithio ar bensiynau’r bobl hyn. Nid yn unig bydd y menywod yn colli £7,000 o’u cyflogau, ond beth fydd eu pensiynau mewn dwy neu dair blynedd?

We have to change, but we rushed into things in 1996. Peter Black talked earlier about the costs that arise in counties as they reorganise and evaluate jobs. I was in a meeting with Unison in Carmarthershire on Monday evening, and what was clear is that they are mixing both things together, that is, evaluating jobs and looking at what happened in 1996, which was that four counties had come together with people who had different salaries and working conditions. Those have been protected since 1996 and a huge problem arises now with people losing wages. That is the problem, perhaps, in Bridgend, as Peter Black mentioned earlier, but it is certainly the case in Carmarthenshire, where the people whom I met Monday evening, who have worked there for over 20 years—women on the whole—are losing £7,000 a year. On top of all that there is what the Conservatives are doing in England, which will affect these people’s pensions. Not only will the women lose £7,000 a year from their wages, but what will their pensions be like in two or three years’ time?

Mae’n rhaid inni edrych ar y sefyllfa a chydweithio. Mae’r Gweinidog, Carl Sargeant, yn gweithio tuag at rywbeth. Rhaid cydweithio yn gyntaf, ond, yn fy mhrofiad i, nid yw siroedd eisiau cydweithio. Fodd bynnag, mae’r Gweinidog yn rhoi cyfle iddynt wneud hynny. Rhaid cydweithio cyn ad-drefnu—dyna beth fydd yn digwydd yn y pen draw, felly mae’r dewis gan y siroedd. Yr wyf yn gwybod bod enghreifftiau da ar draws Cymru, ond mae rhai siroedd yn gwrthod gweithio gyda’i gilydd.

We have to look at the situation and collaborate. Carl Sargeant, the Minister, is working towards something. Collaboration must come first, but, in my experience, counties do not want to collaborate. However, the Minister is giving them an opportunity to do so. We must have collaboration before reorganisation—that is what will happen at the end of the day, therefore it is up to the counties. I know that there are good examples across Wales, but there are some counties that are refusing to work together.

Simon Thomas: Yr wyf newydd glywed Keith Davies yn gwneud dadl dda iawn o blaid uno awdurdodau lleol a chael rhyw saith neu wyth awdurdod lleol mawr yng Nghymru. Nid wyf yn meddwl mai dyna yw polisi’r Gweinidog ar hyn o bryd. Yr wyf hefyd newydd glywed Keith yn pledio achos rhai o weithwyr sir Gâr. Y newyddion da i bobl sir Gâr yw bod plaid Keith yn rheoli yno, gyda’r annibynwyr, a’i bod yn gallu datrys y broblem chwap, byddwn yn meddwl: cawn weld.

Simon Thomas: I have just heard Keith Davies make a very good case for merging local authorities and having seven or eight large local authorities in Wales. I do not think that that is the Minister’s policy at present. I have also just heard Keith pleading the case of some of the workers in Carmarthenshire. The good news for the people of Carmarthenshire is that Keith’s party is in control there, with the independents, and could sort out the problem quickly, I would have thought: we will see.

Hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar gwestiwn arweinyddiaeth. Mae’n rhaid imi ddweud nad wyf yn deall hanner yr hyn sy’n cael ei ddweud gan y Llywodraeth na’r bobl sydd yn ei gwrthwynebu weithiau; mae hi fel gyrru heb oleuadau yn y niwl, gan nad wyf yn deall beth sy’n mynd i ddigwydd nesaf. Mae’n rhaid imi ddweud wrth y Gweinidog fy mod wedi clywed ei ddatganiad llafar heddiw a’r datganiad llafar cyn hynny, ac wedi darllen ei ddatganiad ysgrifenedig, ac maent i gyd yn dweud yr un peth, sef dim byd. Mae’n rhaid gofyn rhai cwestiynau. Yr wyf yn deall bod yr ewyllys ganddo, ac yr wyf yn derbyn bod angen diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Fodd bynnag, a yw’r Gweinidog yn betrusgar oherwydd nad yw’n gallu gweithredu heb beri gofid i gynghorau lleol cyn yr etholiadau? Ai diffyg cytundeb yn y Cabinet sy’n achosi iddo lusgo ei draed? Nid wyf yn siŵr, ond mae arweinyddiaeth yn un o’r problemau dybryd.

I would like to concentrate on the question of leadership. I have to say that I do not understand half of what is being said by the Government or the people opposing it sometimes; it is like driving without lights in the fog, because I do not understand what will happen next. I have to tell the Minister that I have heard his oral statement today and the previous oral statement, and have read his written statement, and they all say the same thing, which is nothing. We need to ask some questions. I understand that he has the will, and I accept that we need to reform public services. However, is the Minister shilly-shallying because he does not want to take action and upset local councils before the elections? Or is it a lack of agreement in the Cabinet that is causing him to drag his feet? I am not sure, but leadership is one of the huge problems.

Yr oedd sawl peth yn cael ei grybwyll ym maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur. Yn gyntaf oll yr oedd sôn am greu academi arweinyddiaeth i’r gwasanaeth sifil a’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Hoffwn wybod a oes unrhyw gamau wedi’u cymryd tuag at gyflawni’r amcan hwnnw. Yr ail beth a oedd yn y maniffesto—yn ddiddorol iawn, nid yw hyn yn y rhaglen lywodraethu sydd wedi’i chyhoeddi heddiw—oedd sôn am wneud y gwasanaeth sifil yng Nghymru’n fwy atebol i Weinidogion Cymru. Yr wyf yn cytuno â’r amcan hwnnw. Tybed a gafodd y cyfeiriad bach hwn at fwy o atebolrwydd gan y gweision sifil i’r Gweinidogion ei hepgor rywbryd rhwng cyhoeddi’r maniffesto a’r gweision sifil yn ysgrifennu’r rhaglen lywodraethu. Mae’n sicr bod angen yr atebolrwydd hwnnw. Mae angen y ddau beth ar yr un pryd: academi arweinyddiaeth a rhaglen hyfforddi arweinyddiaeth a gwasanaeth cyhoeddus, sy’n cynnwys gweision sifil a swyddogion awdurdodau lleol, sy’n fwy atebol i ddemocratiaeth leol, fel sydd wedi cael ei grybwyll, ond hefyd i ddemocratiaeth genedlaethol, y Senedd hon ac, a bod yn deg, y Llywodraeth sydd wedi cael ei hethol—hyd yn hyn, beth bynnag—i fod yn Llywodraeth Cymru, a’r Gweinidogion sy’n perthyn iddi. Hoffwn weld mwy o atebolrwydd uniongyrchol rhwng y penaethiaid yn y gwasanaeth sifil sy’n gyfrifol am ddarparu’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hyn a’r Gweinidogion sydd yn gyfrifol ac yn atebol am y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i’r Senedd ac i’r cyhoedd. Mae angen mwy o wybodaeth am y materion hyn.

Many things were mentioned in the Labour Party manifesto. First of all, there was talk of creating a leadership academy for the civil service and the public services in Wales. I would like to know if any steps have been taken towards achieving that objective. The second thing in the manifesto—interestingly, this is not in the programme for government published today—was talk of making the civil service in Wales more accountable to Welsh Ministers. I agree with that objective. I wonder whether that reference to more accountability by civil servants to Ministers was omitted somewhere between the publication of the manifesto and the civil servants writing the programme for government. That accountability is certainly needed. Both things are needed at the same time: a leadership academy and a leadership training programme and a public service, including civil servants and local authority officers, that is more accountable to local democracy, as has been mentioned, but also to national democracy, the Senedd and, to be fair, the Government that has been elected—so far, at least—to be the Welsh Government, and the Ministers in that Government. I would like to see more direct accountability between the heads of the civil service that are responsible for providing these public services and the Ministers who are responsible and accountable for those public services to the Senedd and to the public. More information is needed about these matters.

Yr ydym wedi clywed tipyn o sôn am gydweithio rhwng awdurdodau. Hoffwn glywed mwy gan y Gweinidog ynghylch sut y mae’n mynd i gynnal y cydbwysedd rhwng y cytundebau allbwn, sef y dull traddodiadol sydd gan y Gweinidog o roi’r broses hon ar waith, a’r dulliau newydd a gyflwynwyd dan y Mesur eleni, sef gorfodi cydweithredu efallai, neu hyd yn oed gorfodi cynghorau i uno. A fydd y cytundebau allbwn yn parhau? Ym mha gyd-destun y mae’r Gweinidog yn eu gweld yn parhau o ystyried y bydd yn rhaid i fwy o gynghorau gydweithio?

We have heard much talk about collaboration between authorities. I would like to hear more from the Minister about how he is going to keep the balance between the outcome agreements, which is the traditional way that the Minister has of implementing this process, and the new methods introduced by the Measure this year for enforcing collaboration, perhaps, or even forcing councils to merge. Will the outcome agreements continue? In what context does the Minister see these continuing, given that more councils will have to collaborate?

5.15 p.m.

Mae sôn ym maniffesto’r Blaid Lafur ac yn y rhaglen lywodraethu am ddelio ag amodau gwaith gweithwyr yn y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus wrth iddynt gael eu diwygio. Yr ydym yn edrych yn benodol ar y posibilrwydd o ddatganoli amodau gwaith i athrawon. Mae’r rheini’n cael eu chwalu yn Lloegr. Cytunaf yn llwyr â Rhodri Glyn—fel y gwnaf bob tro—nad ydym am efelychu Lloegr, gan ddweud, os nad ydym yn gwneud cystal neu’n gwneud yr un peth â Lloegr, fod rhywbeth o’i le. Mae’r ysgolion rhydd, er enghraifft, yn chwalu’r syniad o amodau gwaith cenedlaethol yn Lloegr. Mae’n rhaid i ni fod yn barod i ddelio â’r undebau, yr athrawon a gweithwyr yn y system addysg i weld a oes modd amddiffyn eu hawliau drwy ddatganoli a gweithio ar lefel Gymreig.

Mention is made in the Labour Party manifesto and in the programme for government of dealing with working conditions in the public services as they are reformed. We are looking in particular at the possibility of devolving teachers’ terms and conditions, which are being destroyed in England. I agree with Rhodri Glyn—as I do on all occasions—that we do not want to just emulate what happens in England, saying that we are not doing as well or doing the same, so something must be wrong. Free schools, for example, are destroying the concept of nationally agreed working conditions in England. We must be willing to deal with unions, teachers and workers in the education system to see whether we can protect their rights by devolving some of this and working at a Welsh level.

Hoffwn orffen drwy grybwyll un peth sydd wedi bod ar goll hyd yma yng nghyd-destun gwella ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae’n hynod bwysig—ac mae’r Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau wedi derbyn hyn—fod angen adeiladau sydd o’r safon uchaf posibl ar gyfer addysgu, a hynny yw nod rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Efallai na chawn glywed gan Carl Sargeant am y rhaglen hon, ond yr wyf yn pwyso ar y Llywodraeth i’w gwneud yn glir yn fuan beth yw dyfodol y rhaglen, oherwydd y mae llawer o awdurdodau yn dibynnu arni i ddarparu adeiladau newydd er mwyn diwygio’r system addysg yn eu siroedd.

I would like to conclude by mentioning one thing that has been missing to date in the context of improving our public services. It is extremely important—the Minister for education has accepted this—that we need buildings of the highest quality for education, which is the aim of the twenty-first century schools programme. We may not hear from Carl Sargeant about this programme, but I would urge the Government to tell us clearly and soon about the future of that programme, because many authorities are dependent upon it to deliver new buildings so that they can reform the education system in their counties.

Jenny Rathbone: I agree with Simon Thomas that leadership is crucial to improve public services, but perhaps not the sort of leadership that Simon Thomas was talking about. It is important that we do not get into an argument about whether we have 22 organisations or seven. We all know that, once you start talking about reorganising structures, people start to look inwards. Everyone who is involved in delivering services to the public has to focus on looking outwards and analysing how best to meet the needs of our communities. It is no use complaining about the money that we do not have; we have to focus on the money that we do have and on how we will deliver services better.

Jenny Rathbone: Yr wyf yn cytuno â Simon Thomas bod arweinyddiaeth yn hanfodol i wella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ond nid, efallai, y math o arweinyddiaeth yr oedd Simon Thomas yn sôn amdano. Mae’n bwysig nad ydym yn mynd i mewn i ddadl ynghylch a oes gennym 22 o sefydliadau neu saith. Yr ydym i gyd yn gwybod, unwaith i chi ddechrau siarad am ad-drefnu strwythurau, bydd pobl yn dechrau edrych tuag at i mewn. Mae’n rhaid i bawb sy’n ymwneud â darparu gwasanaethau i’r cyhoedd ganolbwyntio ar edrych tuag allan a dadansoddi sut mae diwallu anghenion ein cymunedau orau. Nid oes diben cwyno am yr arian nad oes gennym; mae’n rhaid i ni ganolbwyntio ar yr arian sydd gennym a sut y byddwn yn cyflwyno gwasanaethau gwell.

I want to look at two examples. Yes, they are in England, but rather than acting according to this introverted idea that something is only worth looking at if it is made in Wales, we have to look at all parts of the world, including England, from which we may be able to learn new ways of delivering services. A report was published by Demos a few weeks ago called ‘Coping with the Cuts’. It looked at all local authorities in England and Wales and how the cuts are affecting disabled people. The subtitle is ‘Less money doesn’t have to mean a poorer service for disabled people…’. You will be glad to know that Wales comes out of the report pretty well, not least because the settlement in Wales was much fairer than the settlements in England. There were huge disparities in the settlements for different English local authorities, and a disgraceful redistribution of resources from some of the poorest communities to some of the leafy suburbs. That did not happen in Wales, and that is excellent. Another thing that the report highlighted as being important for disabled people is the Measure brought in by the Welsh Assembly Government to ensure that no individual pays more than £50 a week for social care. That has deterred local authorities from making excessive increases in their charges for home care, meals on wheels or other services that are particularly important to older people with disabilities.

Rwyf am edrych ar ddwy enghraifft. Ydyn, maent yn Lloegr, ond yn hytrach na gweithredu yn ôl y syniad mewnblyg bod rhywbeth ond yn werth edrych arno os yw’n cael ei wneud yng Nghymru, mae’n rhaid i ni edrych ar bob rhan o’r byd, gan gynnwys Lloegr, lle mae’n bosibl y gallem ddysgu ffyrdd newydd o ddarparu gwasanaethau. Cyhoeddwyd adroddiad gan Demos ychydig wythnosau yn ôl o’r enw ‘Coping with the Cuts’. Roedd yn edrych ar bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru a Lloegr a sut y mae’r toriadau yn effeithio ar bobl anabl. Yr is-deitl yw ‘Less money doesn’t have to mean a poorer service for disabled people…’. Byddwch yn falch o wybod bod Cymru’n dod allan o’r adroddiad yn eithaf da, nid lleiaf oherwydd bod y setliad yng Nghymru yn llawer tecach na’r setliadau yn Lloegr. Yr oedd gwahaniaethau enfawr yn y setliadau ar gyfer gwahanol awdurdodau lleol yn Lloegr, ac ailddosbarthiad gwarthus o adnoddau o rai o’r cymunedau tlotaf i rai o’r maestrefi deiliog. Ni ddigwyddodd hynny yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny’n wych. Peth arall y mae’r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw ato fel rhywbeth sy’n bwysig i bobl anabl yw’r Mesur a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw unigolyn yn talu mwy na £50 yr wythnos am ofal cymdeithasol. Mae hynny wedi atal awdurdodau lleol rhag gwneud cynnydd gormodol yn eu taliadau am ofal cartref, pryd ar glud neu wasanaethau eraill sy’n arbennig o bwysig i bobl hŷn ag anableddau.

In the report on how the cuts affect people with disabilities, top of the class is Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council, to the east of Liverpool. It is the fifth poorest local authority in the United Kingdom. If Knowsley council can get it right for disabled people, we all ought to be able to do it, however deprived the communities are that we are serving. The reason Knowsley has got it right is that it knows how many disabled people it is trying to serve, it consults people with disabilities to find out what they actually want, and it protects services that promote independent living. That is what I call accountability, and I wonder how many authorities in Wales can really claim to do those three things. I would also like to point out that it is no coincidence that Knowsley works extremely closely with its health bodies. In fact, its chief executive is also the chief executive of the primary care trust. That level of collaboration and confidence in each other’s services means that they are able to seamlessly transfer back services that were previously placed with the primary care trusts but which now need to go back to the local authority because of the unbelievable reorganisation of the NHS that is going on in England. That is absolutely commendable and the sort of thing we need to learn from.

Yn yr adroddiad ar sut y mae’r toriadau yn effeithio ar bobl ag anableddau, ar frig y dosbarth y mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Fetropolitanaidd Knowsley, i’r dwyrain o Lerpwl. Dyma’r pumed awdurdod lleol tlotaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Os gall cyngor Knowsley ei wneud yn iawn ar gyfer pobl anabl, dylem i gyd fod yn gallu ei wneud, er mor ddifreintiedig y cymunedau yr ydym yn eu gwasanaethu. Y rheswm pam y mae Knowsley wedi gwneud pethau’n iawn yw am ei fod yn gwybod faint o bobl anabl y mae’n ceisio eu gwasanaethu, mae’n ymgynghori â phobl ag anableddau i gael gwybod beth, mewn gwirionedd, y maent ei eisiau, ac y mae’n diogelu gwasanaethau sy’n hyrwyddo byw yn annibynnol. Dyna beth yr wyf yn ei alw yn atebolrwydd; tybed faint o awdurdodau yng Nghymru a all, mewn gwirionedd, honni i wneud y tri pheth hwnnw. Hoffwn hefyd dynnu sylw at y ffaith nad cyd-ddigwyddiad mohono bod Knowsley yn gweithio’n hynod o agos gyda’i gyrff iechyd. Yn wir, mae ei brif weithredwr hefyd yn brif weithredwr yr ymddiriedolaeth gofal sylfaenol. Mae’r lefel honno o gydweithredu a hyder yng ngwasanaethau ei gilydd yn golygu eu bod yn gallu trosglwyddo yn ôl yn ddi-dor wasanaethau a gafodd eu gosod gyda’r ymddiriedolaethau gofal sylfaenol, ond sydd bellach angen mynd yn ôl at yr awdurdod lleol oherwydd ad-drefnu anhygoel y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol sydd yn digwydd yn Lloegr. Mae hynny’n hollol glodwiw a dyna’r math o beth y mae angen i ni ddysgu oddi wrtho.

The second initiative I would like to refer to goes much further in looking at collaboration. It really is not just about back-office services between local authorities, but new ways of working and using money more wisely across organisations that want to serve communities. The initiative, which is in Liverpool, run by the council’s Beautiful North team, is called Show Your Beautiful Face. It is a collaboration, not just with the local authority in Liverpool, but with the primary care trust, all of the emergency services, local businesses, local social and private landlords and the local community. One of the most important things that Beautiful North is doing is ensuring that local businesses are employing local labour. In itself, that has caused the creation of new local businesses, which, in an area of endemic unemployment—

Mae’r ail fenter yr hoffwn gyfeirio ato yn mynd ymhellach o lawer wrth edrych ar gydweithio. Yn wir, nid mater sy’n ymwneud â dim ond gwasanaethau cefn swyddfa rhwng awdurdodau lleol ydyw, ond ffyrdd newydd o weithio a defnyddio arian yn ddoethach ar draws sefydliadau sy’n awyddus i wasanaethu cymunedau. Enw’r fenter, sydd yn Lerpwl, a redir gan dîm Beautiful North y cyngor, yw Show Your Beautiful Face. Cydweithrediad ydyw, nid yn unig gyda’r awdurdod lleol yn Lerpwl ond gyda’r ymddiriedolaeth gofal sylfaenol, pob un o’r gwasanaethau brys, busnesau lleol, landlordiaid cymdeithasol a phreifat lleol a’r gymuned leol. Un o’r pethau pwysicaf y mae Beautiful North yn ei wneud yw sicrhau bod busnesau lleol yn cyflogi gweithwyr lleol. Ynddo’i hun, mae hynny wedi creu busnesau lleol newydd, sydd, mewn ardal o ddiweithdra endemig—

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Can you conclude now please?

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. A allwch chi ddod â’r ddadl i ben yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda?

Jenny Rathbone: It is hugely important. So, I strongly support the strategy of not getting bogged down in endless reorganisation. Instead, we should expect our local authorities to step up to the plate and meet the needs of communities and individuals.

Jenny Rathbone: Mae’n hynod o bwysig. Felly, yr wyf yn cefnogi’n gryf y strategaeth o beidio â chael ein llethu mewn ad-drefnu diddiwedd. Yn lle hynny, dylem ddisgwyl ein hawdurdodau lleol i ymateb i’r her a diwallu anghenion cymunedau ac unigolion.

Mark Isherwood: Interestingly, Knowsley village was part of the Heseltine Merseyside initiative back in 1980-81 when we had the first genuine case of community empowerment at a neighbourhood level. As amendment 4 recognises, public service reform that does not bring together the independent third sector and the public sector with the citizen and the community at the centre and that does not respond to public need to reduce demand on other services via a whole-service approach and co-production is doomed to fail. Effective Governments are not there to deliver every single service. They are there to ensure that services are delivered. They do not think that they have all the answers, but they do know where to find them. At a recent conference, I heard a health board commissioner refer to the third sector providers of essential services sat next to him as ‘competitors’. He just did not get it, but he summed up the problem.

Mark Isherwood: Mae’n ddiddorol nodi bod pentref Knowsley yn rhan o fenter Heseltine yng Nglannau Mersi yn ôl ym 1980-81 pan oedd gennym yr achos dilys cyntaf o rymuso cymunedol ar lefel cymdogaeth. Fel y mae gwelliant 4 yn ei gydnabod, mae diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus nad yw’n dwyn ynghyd y trydydd sector annibynnol a’r sector cyhoeddus gyda’r dinesydd a’r gymuned yn y canol, ac nad yw’n ymateb i anghenion y cyhoedd i leihau’r galw ar wasanaethau eraill drwy ddull gwasanaeth-cyfan a chyd-gynhyrchu yn sicr o fethu. Nid yw llywodraethau effeithiol yn bodoli er mwyn darparu pob un gwasanaeth. Maent yno i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau’n cael eu darparu. Nid ydynt yn credu bod ganddynt yr atebion i gyd, ond maent yn gwybod ymhle y mae dod o hyd iddynt. Mewn cynhadledd ddiweddar, clywais gomisiynydd bwrdd iechyd yn cyfeirio at ddarparwyr gwasanaethau hanfodol yn y trydydd sector a oedd yn eistedd nesaf iddo fel ‘cystadleuwyr’. Nid oedd wir yn ei deall, ond crynhodd y broblem.

We advocate an approach that is not designed for an age of austerity, but rather for any age of social and economic aspiration—delivering more for less at a time of deficit reduction, but also delivering more for the same when budgets are stable and more for more when budgets are growing. It is an approach that can help us to provide better public services more efficiently and new partnerships between Government, civil society and the independent sector as well as to bring in new innovative approaches. It takes power out of the hands of Government and gives it to people working on the front line, the people who know what is best for the service. That can help us provide better services more efficiently, benefiting people in the most vulnerable situations and providing good value to the taxpayer. In other words, we are trying to turn the power thing upside down.

Yr ydym yn argymell dull nad yw wedi ei gynllunio ar gyfer oes o lymder, ond yn hytrach ar gyfer unrhyw oes o ddyhead cymdeithasol ac economaidd—darparu mwy am lai mewn cyfnod o leihau’r diffyg, ond hefyd gan ddarparu mwy am yr un peth pan fydd cyllidebau yn sefydlog a mwy am fwy pan fydd cyllidebau’n tyfu. Mae’n ddull sy’n gallu ein helpu i ddarparu gwell gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn fwy effeithlon a phartneriaethau newydd rhwng y Llywodraeth, y gymdeithas sifil a’r sector annibynnol yn ogystal â dod â dulliau arloesol newydd. Mae’n cymryd pŵer allan o ddwylo’r Llywodraeth a’i roi i bobl sy’n gweithio yn y rheng flaen, y bobl sy’n gwybod yr hyn sydd orau ar gyfer y gwasanaeth. Gall hynny ein helpu i ddarparu gwell gwasanaethau yn fwy effeithlon, rhoi budd i bobl yn y sefyllfaoedd mwyaf bregus a darparu gwerth da i’r trethdalwr. Mewn geiriau eraill, yr ydym yn ceisio troi’r pŵer wyneb i waered.

This is not about choice and markets. It is about putting better outcomes before processes, using empowerment to defeat dependency. It is about power to the people. We need social action with Government fostering and supporting a new culture of voluntarism. We need to open up public services to new providers, including charities and social enterprises, giving professionals much more freedom and delivering responsiveness to public need. We need real community empowerment, putting neighbourhoods in charge of their own destinies. I will never tire of referring to the round-table discussion event I attended with the College of Occupational Therapists, the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy, Age Concern Gwent, the Wales Council for Voluntary Action and Crossroads Care. The event focused on community resource teams and collaboration. Participants highlighted concerns over the development of primary care services that centred on the need to involve the voluntary sector, particularly those that provide services for individuals and those who care for them. They wished to ensure co-ordination and engagement, the appropriate use of skills and knowledge and to ensure that community resource teams are fit for purpose. They noted that, in the current financial climate, the more we can provide the right skills by the right people in the right places and at the right time, the better. They championed a new approach involving person-led support, user-led services and community-led services, based on the co-design and co-delivery of public services, bringing together the independent third sector and the public sector, with the citizen and community at the centre. This is about mutual support complementing and reducing demand for other services.

Nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â dewis a marchnadoedd. Mae’n ymwneud â rhoi gwell canlyniadau o flaen prosesau, gan ddefnyddio grym i drechu dibyniaeth. Mae’n ymwneud â grym i’r bobl. Mae angen gweithredu cymdeithasol gyda’r Llywodraeth yn maethu ac yn cefnogi diwylliant newydd o wirfoddoliaeth. Mae angen i ni agor gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i ddarparwyr newydd, gan gynnwys elusennau a mentrau cymdeithasol, gan roi llawer mwy o ryddid i weithwyr proffesiynol a darparu ymatebolrwydd i anghenion y cyhoedd. Mae arnom angen grymuso cymunedau go iawn, gan roi cymdogaethau yn gyfrifol am eu tynged eu hunain. Ni fyddaf byth yn blino ar gyfeirio at y digwyddiad lle cafwyd trafodaeth bord gron yr euthum iddo gyda Choleg y Therapyddion Galwedigaethol, Cymdeithas Siartredig Ffisiotherapi, Age Concern Gwent, Cyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru a Gofal Croesffyrdd. Canolbwyntiodd y digwyddiad ar dimau adnoddau cymunedol a chydweithio. Amlygodd y cyfranogwyr bryderon am y gwaith o ddatblygu gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol a oedd yn canolbwyntio ar yr angen i gynnwys y sector gwirfoddol, yn enwedig y rheiny sy’n darparu gwasanaethau i unigolion a’r rhai sy’n gofalu amdanynt. Roeddent yn dymuno sicrhau cydlyniad ac ymgysylltiad, y defnydd priodol o sgiliau a gwybodaeth, a sicrhau bod timau adnoddau cymunedol yn addas i’r diben. Nodwyd ganddynt mai, yn yr hinsawdd ariannol sydd ohoni, gorau po fwyaf y gallwn ddarparu’r sgiliau iawn gan y bobl iawn yn y lle iawn ac ar yr adeg iawn. Roeddent yn hyrwyddo ymagwedd newydd sy’n cynnwys cymorth a arweinir gan unigolion, gwasanaethau a arweinir gan ddefnyddwyr a gwasanaethau dan arweiniad y gymuned, yn seiliedig ar gyd-gynllunio a chyd-ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, gan ddwyn ynghyd y trydydd sector annibynnol a’r sector cyhoeddus, gyda’r dinesydd a’r gymuned yn y canol. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â chyd-gefnogaeth yn cyflenwi ac yn lleihau’r galw am wasanaethau eraill.

They feared that the move to community care would be more expensive when it need not be if we simply change the way that we do things. They emphasised that the third sector brings expertise to the table that the state sector does not always have, and that it must be allowed to play a strategic role in order to turn problems into solutions and promote person-centred approaches, taking a whole-service approach that delivers co-production and puts people and communities, rather than service-deliverers, at the centre. For example, take our wonderful independent hospices, which told the cross-party housing group at the end of the last Assembly that, if only the NHS in Wales would let them, they could help it to deliver more for less. Take also the work of the Wales Participatory Budgeting Unit with local authorities and Disability Wales, which identified solutions that were shown to be needed by carers themselves and which were relatively inexpensive in comparison with larger, local authority-introduced services.

Roeddent yn ofni y byddai symud i ofal yn y gymuned yn ddrutach pan nad oes angen iddo fod os newidiwn y ffordd y gwnawn pethau. Pwysleisiasant fod y trydydd sector yn dod ag arbenigedd at y bwrdd nad yw yn y sector gwladol bob amser, a bod yn rhaid caniatáu iddo chwarae rôl strategol er mwyn troi problemau yn atebion a hyrwyddo dulliau sy’n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn, gan gymryd ymagwedd sy’n edrych ar y gwasanaeth cyfan ac sy’n darparu cyd-gynhyrchu ac yn rhoi pobl a chymunedau, yn hytrach na darparwyr gwasanaethau, yn y canol. Cymerwch ein hosbisau annibynnol gwych, er enghraifft, a ddywedodd wrth y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar dai ar ddiwedd y Cynulliad diwethaf, petai’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru ond yn caniatáu hynny, gallent ei helpu i ddarparu mwy am lai. Cymerwch hefyd waith Uned Cyllidebu Cyfranogol Cymru, er enghraifft, gydag awdurdodau lleol ac Anabledd Cymru, a oedd yn nodi atebion a ddangoswyd o fod yn angenrheidiol gan ofalwyr eu hunain ac a oedd yn gymharol rad o’u cymharu â gwasanaethau a gyflwynwyd gan awdurdodau lleol mwy.

I dream of a day when this can herald the end of big Welsh Government and the start of the big Welsh society. I am not ashamed to say that; I am proud of it. After all, it does not matter who delivers the services at the end of the day. What matters is how well they are delivered and the quality of the service received.

Yr wyf yn breuddwydio am y dydd pryd y gall hyn fod yn arwydd o ddiwedd llywodraeth fawr Cymru a dechrau’r gymdeithas fawr Gymreig. Nid oes gennyf gywilydd dweud hynny; yr wyf yn falch ohono. Wedi’r cyfan, nid yw’n bwysig pwy sy’n darparu’r gwasanaethau yn y pen draw. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig yw pa mor dda y maent yn eu darparu ac ansawdd y gwasanaeth a gafwyd.

The Minister for Local Government and Communities (Carl Sargeant): This has been a very interesting debate. A wide variety of contributions have been supportive, though others have perhaps not been so supportive.

Y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau (Carl Sargeant): Mae hon wedi bod yn ddadl ddiddorol iawn. Mae amrywiaeth eang o gyfraniadau wedi bod yn gefnogol, er nad yw eraill, efallai, wedi bod mor gefnogol.

I will start by mentioning some of the points that have been raised today. Byron Davies made some very interesting comments about the importance of non-partisan, consensus politics in getting decisions through. Byron, you will not find anyone in this Chamber who is as conscious of that process of being non-partisan as me, and I look forward to working with you in taking this forward.

Dechreuaf drwy sôn am rai o’r pwyntiau sydd wedi’u codi heddiw. Gwnaeth Byron Davies rai sylwadau diddorol iawn ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd gwleidyddiaeth gonsensws, amhleidiol, o ran cael penderfyniadau drwodd. Byron, ni ddewch chi o hyd i unrhyw un yn y Siambr hon sydd mor ymwybodol â mi o’r broses honno o fod yn amhleidiol, ac rwy’n edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda chi i fwrw ymlaen â hyn.

You touched on the issue of the third sector’s ability to work beyond Simpson and how it has an impact on service delivery. I have regular meetings with the third sector. Indeed, I had a meeting with third-sector organisations yesterday, alongside their local government partners. Leaders of both sets of organisations said that they support the principle of our operation in Wales and what I am doing in relation to regionalism and the effort to achieve better public services. I am sure that they would welcome your contribution at the next third sector partnership council meeting. What I hear about the actions of the Westminster Government having a direct impact on people in Wales will perhaps open your eyes to their reality.

Gwnaethoch gyffwrdd â gallu’r trydydd sector i weithio y tu hwnt i Simpson a sut y mae’n cael effaith ar gyflenwi gwasanaethau. Byddaf yn cael cyfarfodydd rheolaidd gyda’r trydydd sector. Yn wir, cefais gyfarfod â mudiadau trydydd sector ddoe, ochr yn ochr â’u partneriaid llywodraeth leol. Dywedodd arweinwyr y ddwy set o sefydliadau eu bod yn cefnogi egwyddor ein gwaith yng Nghymru a’r hyn yr wyf yn ei wneud mewn perthynas â rhanbarthiaeth a’r ymdrech i sicrhau gwell gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae’n siŵr gennyf y byddent yn croesawu eich cyfraniad yng nghyfarfod nesaf cyngor partneriaeth y trydydd sector. Efallai y gwnaiff yr hyn yr wyf yn ei glywed am weithredoedd Llywodraeth San Steffan yn cael effaith uniongyrchol ar bobl yng Nghymru yn agor eich llygaid at eu realiti.

I will pick up some of the issues raised by Janet Finch-Saunders. I thank you for your contribution, but I am not sure that you have clearly understood the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011. You mentioned amalgamation without consultation. That is not the case. Please read the amendments that I put forward—some of your colleagues will be able to help you with that, I am sure. You touched on the issue of town and community councils. As a former member of a community council, I am very keen for them to be involved in this process. We are looking at how we can launch shared services between local authorities and town and community councils, following on from the Aberystwyth study. I know that officials were trying to launch a programme in Flintshire this week, but there was a diary clash. However, it has been positive in moving forward that agenda.

Byddaf yn codi rhai o’r materion a godwyd gan Janet Finch-Saunders. Yr wyf yn diolch i chi am eich cyfraniad, ond nid wyf yn siŵr eich bod wedi deall yn iawn Mesur Llywodraeth Leol (Cymru) 2011. Yr ydych wedi crybwyll uno heb ymgynghori. Nid yw hynny’n wir. Darllenwch y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd gennyf. Bydd rhai o’ch cydweithwyr yn gallu eich helpu gyda hynny, rwy’n siŵr. Rydych wedi cyffwrdd ar y mater o gynghorau tref a chymuned. Fel cyn-aelod o gyngor cymuned, yr wyf yn awyddus iawn iddynt fod yn rhan o’r broses hon. Rydym yn edrych ar sut y gallwn lansio gwasanaethau a rennir rhwng awdurdodau lleol a chynghorau tref a chymuned, yn dilyn astudiaeth Aberystwyth. Gwn fod swyddogion yn ceisio lansio rhaglen yn sir y Fflint yr wythnos hon, ond roedd gwrthdaro yn y dyddiadur. Fodd bynnag, mae wedi bod yn gadarnhaol o ran symud ymlaen â’r agenda honno.

5.30 p.m.

Peter Black made some interesting comments on the Simpson agenda, and there was some confusion about what the compact means. Following the Simpson review, the compact—but not its detail—was agreed in principle with local authorities and the Welsh Government. I am confident that it will be signed off by the end of the year. It is not something that we have imposed; it is being supported by local authorities.

Gwnaeth Peter Black rai sylwadau diddorol ar agenda Simpson, ac roedd rhywfaint o ddryswch ynghylch yr hyn y mae’r ‘compact’ yn ei olygu. Yn dilyn adolygiad Simpson, cytunwyd mewn egwyddor ar y ‘compact’—ond nid ei fanylion—gydag awdurdodau lleol a Llywodraeth Cymru. Rwy’n hyderus y bydd yn cael ei lofnodi erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Nid yw’n rhywbeth yr ydym wedi ei osod; mae’n cael ei gefnogi gan yr awdurdodau lleol.

Let me be clear that I am not hung up on joint appointments. The issue here is about fundamental service delivery changes. I think that joint appointments help that process. I am not going to be pressing the button for joint appointments because I just want to see a joint appointment. I will ensure that we make progress on driving through public service improvement with regard to cost improvement and service delivery.

Gadewch i mi fod yn glir nad wyf yn canolbwyntio gormod ar benodiadau ar y cyd. Y pwynt yn y fan hon yw newidiadau sylfaenol o ran darparu gwasanaethau. Credaf fod apwyntiadau ar y cyd yn helpu’r broses honno. Nid wyf yn mynd i fod yn gwasgu’r botwm ar gyfer penodiadau ar y cyd dim ond am fy mod am weld penodiad ar y cyd. Byddaf yn sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd o ran gwella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus o ran gwella cost a darparu gwasanaethau.

Peter Black: I accept what you say on that, Minister. The problem is that, when you focus on a particular joint appointment, the message that you send out is that that is your main focus. That is the problem. You cannot have a joint appointment unless the infrastructure below it is in place.

Peter Black: Yr wyf yn derbyn yr hyn a ddywedwch am hynny, Weinidog. Y broblem yw, pan fyddwch yn canolbwyntio ar benodiad penodol ar y cyd, y neges yr ydych yn ei anfon allan yw mai hynny yw eich prif ffocws. Dyna’r broblem. Ni allwch gael penodiad ar y cyd oni bai bod y seilwaith islaw yn ei le.

Carl Sargeant: I do not agree with that. I alluded earlier to some of the actions of Conwy and Denbighshire councils; they have some successful shared services in traffic management, where they have one person dealing with that activity. A good service has been delivered with one person.

Carl Sargeant: Nid wyf yn cytuno â hynny. Cyfeiriais yn gynharach at rai o gamau gweithredu cynghorau Conwy a Sir Ddinbych; mae ganddynt rai gwasanaethau a rennir yn llwyddiannus yn yr adran rheoli traffig, lle mae ganddynt un person sy’n ymdrin â’r weithgaredd honno. Mae gwasanaeth da wedi cael ei ddarparu gydag un person.

Change is not easy. You mentioned that the complication of contracts between public services makes it difficult, but that is not an excuse not to do anything. We must address that head on and make sure that we change the way in which we deliver public services.

Nid yw newid yn hawdd. Soniasoch fod y cymhlethdod o ran cytundebau rhwng gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn ei gwneud yn anodd, ond nid yw hynny’n esgus i beidio â gwneud unrhyw beth. Mae’n rhaid i ni fynd i’r afael â hynny’n bendant, a sicrhau ein bod yn newid y ffordd yr ydym yn darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

I always enjoy Simon Thomas’s contributions, because most of them are really helpful in terms of shaping policy. However, I do not believe you when you say that there is a lack of understanding around this, because I know that you fully understand the need for change. Let us not allow party politics to get in the way of driving forward public improvements. Let us sign up to the public service improvement agenda, as your SNP colleagues in Scotland are doing.

Rwyf bob amser yn mwynhau cyfraniadau Simon Thomas, gan fod y rhan fwyaf ohonynt yn ddefnyddiol iawn o ran llunio polisi. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn eich credu pan ddywedwch fod diffyg dealltwriaeth ynghylch hyn, gan fy mod yn gwybod eich bod yn deall yn llawn yr angen am newid. Gadewch inni beidio â gadael i wleidyddiaeth bleidiol i rwystro ysgogi gwelliannau cyhoeddus. Gadewch i ni ymuno â’r agenda gwella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, fel y mae eich cydweithwyr SNP yn yr Alban yn ei wneud.

Colleagues opposite quibble about collaboration and the opportunities that it presents. Let me inform them about Westminster, Hammersmith, Fulham, Kensington and Chelsea councils: they have announced that they will be part of this great idea of collaboration between councils. That is exactly what we are doing in Wales. I am surprised that you cannot support this principle and take it forward.

Mae cydweithwyr gyferbyn yn dadlau am gydweithredu a’r cyfleoedd y mae’n eu cynnig. Gadewch i mi roi gwybod iddynt am gynghorau San Steffan, Hammersmith, Fulham, Kensington a Chelsea: maent wedi cyhoeddi y byddant yn rhan o’r syniad gwych hwn o gydweithio rhwng cynghorau. Dyna’n union beth yr ydym yn ei wneud yng Nghymru. Yr wyf yn synnu na allwch gefnogi’r egwyddor hon a mynd â hi yn ei blaen.

If I was to follow your argument about not taking this fully costed programme forward and talking about it with everyone in the world, we would be failing the people of Wales. The Minister for education and the school consortia will make a projected saving of £3.5 million to £4 million. That can be invested directly into school front-line services. That is what you are voting against—increased public service delivery. I am quite surprised at that.

Pe bawn i ddilyn eich dadl ynghylch peidio â chymryd y rhaglen hon sydd wedi’i chostio’n llawn ymlaen a siarad am y peth gyda phawb yn y byd, byddem yn methu pobl Cymru. Bydd y Gweinidog dros addysg a’r consortia ysgol yn gwneud arbediad amcanol o £3.5 miliwn i £4 miliwn. Gall hynny gael ei fuddsoddi’n uniongyrchol i mewn i wasanaethau rheng flaen yr ysgol. Dyna’r hyn yr ydych yn pleidleisio yn ei erbyn—cynnydd yn y ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau cyhoeddus. Yr wyf yn synnu braidd at hynny.

Turning to contributions made by other Members, many of them were focused on local government. However, this is about the reform of public services. That is why the partnership board includes leaders of fire authorities, the police and local government. We have the largest spender of public sector money in Wales sitting on this board, namely Mary Burrows from the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board, who represents the regional board in north Wales.

Gan droi at gyfraniadau a wnaed gan Aelodau eraill, roedd llawer ohonynt yn canolbwyntio ar lywodraeth leol. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn ymwneud â diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Dyna pam y mae’r bwrdd partneriaeth yn cynnwys arweinwyr awdurdodau tân, yr heddlu a llywodraeth leol. Mae gennym yr un sy’n gwario’r mwyaf o arian y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn eistedd ar y bwrdd hwn, sef Mary Burrows o Fwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, sy’n cynrychioli’r bwrdd rhanbarthol yng ngogledd Cymru.

Darren Millar: Thank you for taking the intervention, Minister. Do you accept that some public services may best be provided on a cross-border basis between Wales and England? We should not be blinkered in our approach to just providing services for Welsh people from purely within Wales.

Darren Millar: Diolch am dderbyn yr ymyriad, Weinidog. A ydych yn derbyn y gall rhai gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gael eu darparu orau ar sail drawsffiniol rhwng Cymru a Lloegr? Ni ddylem fod yn unllygeidiog yn ein dull o ddarparu gwasanaethau i bobl Cymru o fewn Cymru yn unig.

Carl Sargeant: You will be aware that services for Wales are being operated beyond the boundaries of Wales. [Interruption.] You say that it is not many, but it is happening. When colleagues from across the Chamber say that we should consider the police force, I was with the Police Federation of England and Wales last week, along with many other Members, and it raised its concerns about the massive cuts from Westminster and the reduction of 1,600 in police officer numbers across Wales.

Carl Sargeant: Byddwch yn ymwybodol bod gwasanaethau ar gyfer Cymru yn cael eu gweithredu y tu hwnt i ffiniau Cymru. [Torri ar draws.] Yr ydych yn dweud nad yw’n llawer, ond mae’n digwydd. Pan fydd cydweithwyr o bob rhan o’r Siambr yn dweud y dylem ystyried yr heddlu, roeddwn gyda Ffederasiwn Heddlu Cymru a Lloegr yr wythnos diwethaf, ynghyd â llawer o Aelodau eraill, a chododd ei bryderon am y toriadau enfawr gan San Steffan a’r lleihad o 1,600 o swyddogion yr heddlu ar draws Cymru.

We in the Welsh Government are keen to stand up for public services, but it is about delivering good public services for the public at large. Again, I call on your good nature across the Chamber and ask that you do not put politics before good public services. Please support this motion.

Rydym ni yn Llywodraeth Cymru yn awyddus i sefyll dros wasanaethau cyhoeddus, ond mae ynglŷn â darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus da ar gyfer y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol. Unwaith eto, yr wyf yn galw ar eich natur da ar draws y Siambr ac yn gofyn i chi beidio â rhoi gwleidyddiaeth o flaen gwasanaethau cyhoeddus da. Os gwelwch yn dda, cefnogwch y cynnig hwn.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Is there any objection? I see that there is. Therefore, voting on this item will be deferred until voting time, which will now directly follow this item. Do three Members wish for the bell to be rung? I see that no-one does, so we will proceed.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw derbyn gwelliant 1. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod. Felly, bydd pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon yn cael ei ohirio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio, a fydd bellach yn dilyn yr eitem hon yn uniongyrchol. A oes tri Aelod yn dymuno i’r gloch gael ei chanu? Gwelaf fod neb yn dymuno hynny, felly byddwn yn symud ymlaen.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Millar, Darren
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Millar, Darren
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Millar, Darren
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Millar, Darren
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Millar, Darren
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Davies, Jocelyn
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Millar, Darren
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Millar, Darren
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Millar, Darren
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment agreed.

Cynnig NDM4807 fel y’i diwygiwyd:

Motion NDM4807 as amended:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Yn nodi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen â’i hagenda ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Notes progress on the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform.

Yn galw am ddadansoddiad wedi’i gostio’n llawn o agenda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Calls for a fully costed analysis of the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform.

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddiwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn modd sy’n dod â’r trydydd sector annibynnol a’r sector cyhoeddus ynghyd, gyda’r dinesydd a’r gymuned yn y canol, gan ymateb i anghenion y cyhoedd a gan leihau’r galw ar wasanaethau eraill drwy ddull gweithredu sy’n edrych ar y gwasanaeth cyfan a chyd-gynhyrchu.

Calls on the Welsh Government to deliver Public Service Reform that brings together the independent third sector and the public sector with the citizen and the community at the centre, responding to public need and reducing demand on other services via a whole service approach and co-production.

Yn credu y dylai agenda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer diwygio gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gael ffocws clir ar leihau’r bwlch gwariant ar ysgolion rhwng Cymru a Lloegr.

Believes that the Welsh Government’s agenda for public service reform should have a clear focus on reducing the schools spending gap between England and Wales.

Yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd sicrhau cyllid teg er mwyn gallu darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn effeithiol.

Recognises the importance of securing fair funding in order to achieve effective public service delivery.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hart, Edwina
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Millar, Darren
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes today’s business.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Daw hynny â busnes heddiw i ben.